"The return of WRG 6th Edition Ancients" Topic

As part of the History of Wargaming Project, I have reprinted Phil Barker's classic 6th edition rules. I included the Airfix Guide to Ancient Wargaming (by Phil Barker) as the introduction.

I was somewhat intrigued to see the strength of feelings about these rules.

Anyway the rules are available via my site johncurryevents.co.uk

I am also looking for comments about these rules for my site.

Do you have WRG's permission? I would think it is still under copyright, as would be the Airfix guide.

I like the 5th better, anyway.

Do the world a favour, don't republish the 7th edition.

I have produced them in collaboration with Phil Barker. He is also the author of the Airfix Guide to Ancient Wargaming.

I also work with Don Featherstone, Paddy Griffith, Charlie Wesencraft, Terry Wise and many others.

Interesting to see the reaction.

I used to like 6th and in my youth knew all the factors, charts and tables. The problem for me is that going bat to the rules now they are just too much like hard work.

Wonder if On Military Matters will carry them?

I have a copy of the 6th edition somewhere…

The Return of ----???

But we liked it so much better when it was away.

I thought the Airfix Guide was an introduction to the 4th Edition rules – the Army Lists included won't match the points costs in the rules.

I'd rather have seen 4th Edition back in print, with the Fantasy Supplement and maybe the Dover Amendments if the Grant family would allow the use of those.

"I'd rather have seen 4th Edition back in print,"

The 4th Edition is here:
link

"… and maybe the Dover Amendments if the Grant family would allow the use of those."

Here is a link to the Dover Amendments but they are for the 3rd Edition. I believe the 4th Edition encorporated many of these.

link

There's no Fantasy Supplement though. The Dover Amendments can be found here: link

I love that Purple Airfix book on Intro to Ancient Wargaming. I have often told Phil that he should do that same thing for DBA. I think someone mentioned it might happen for DBA 3.

Strange to mix 6th edition of 1980 with the 1975 Airfix book. As Richard Humm suggests there is a disconnect between the two.

Connard Sage, no fear about 7th edition. The rights were bought by some gamers from USA and re-done as Warrior.
link

Glad to see the old stuff coming back. I guess the resale value of my 5 copies of the Ancient Wargaming book is now quite reduced :(

Editions 1-3 are here.
wrg.me.uk
If 4th is as mentioned above, then all we need is 5th for a full set.

Also need the army lists. But I doubt anyone will actually try to play these oldies.

Connard Sage, no fear about 7th edition. The rights were bought by some gamers from USA and re-done as Warrior.

You mean someone actually understands it? Gosh.

I thought still had a copy of WRG 5th, but it's not on the shelf…

I still have WRG 6th and the 'new' army lists up there though.

Actually, there is quite a vibrant group who play WRG 6th edition (see their Yahoo group). They hold meetings in the UK and competitions. There are also a fair few solo wargamers who play the rules.

Wargaming does not develop in a linear way, each set of rules better than the last. WRG 6th editon was a finely detailed, complex set of rules that supporters say provides a complex and detailed experience. See link

So it is easy to make dismissive comments, but they are an old set of rules that are still played.

I could never understand those rules. Perhaps I didn't try hard enough?

>I love that Purple Airfix book on Intro to Ancient Wargaming. I have often told Phil that he should do that same thing for DBA. I think someone mentioned it might happen for DBA 3.

I think this is going to happen. Sue Laflin-Barker showed a rough draft with colour photos!!!! at the recent SOA Zama battle day…it looked good ….garish purple cover.

Big battle DBA is wonderful, while I can get sentimental about using old school Tony Bath and Donald Featherstone rules I'm not sure I can make the effort to revisit 6th edition.

I have played WRG 6th games every year for the last 30 years

At the Old Glory World Teams in Derby last year the largest single period for Ancients was WRG 6th with IIRC 42 players.

It is clearly still played in reasonable numbers, it is just not for me anymore.

I have 3-6 on my shelf.

We play 6th regularly. Better than DBM and the travesty that is DBA.

I loved 6th edition and despite it being out of favor in the Colonies have held onto my copy. 7th edition… eh. (shrug) Just didn't do it for me. I'd be very happy to see it make a comeback.

Golly, that Airfix book got me into wargaming back when I was a young lad back in the mid 70s. Must have read it hundreds of times, I can still remember the description of the pike vs the barbarians.

Back when I read it I guess it was a similar experience to someone who finds religion for the first time. Before that book I had read everything I could find on warfare but never even conceived that it would be possible to actually refight battles. That book set me on a path with a hobby that has dominated my life (for better or worse) ever since.

Didn't know PB wrote it.

I still have my rules and army lists quite frankly the most awful rules I've ever played. Hours of play akin to watching paint dry. Thank god for WAB and DBA. I'm very much a man who likes his rules simple and fun 6th edition was lacking in both departments.

My 2 cent worth. Is that many rule sets are dumded down to atract more players.

I was reasonably intrigued, on a nostalgia kick, until I found out you were charging real money!

Good luck with that!

Although I have had many good games with WAB I found going back to the 6th the battle flow seemed more historically correct and you did not get units routing and bouncing back.

WAB is still great but using WRG 6th I found myself having to really plan and position my army. To win demands a lot of skill. If you know the rules well the games do flow.

My 2 cent worth. Is that many rule sets are dumded down to atract more players.

You can't beat irony…

Colin

You have nicely stated the fallacy of WRG Ancients.

10th foot can you qualify your statement.

"You can't beat irony…"

TMP is good for that. It reliably provides the recommended daily allowance.

Allen

The army lists seemed to be quite rigorously organised around the 1:20 figure scale. Example: an Imperial Roman cohort would require 24 figs, and the numbers available to purchase would give a ceiling of a certain number of them (this is from memory, by the way).

However, in practice players would buy loads of teeny units and use them in all sorts of peculiar ways. I remember light cavalry being used in one-figure wide columns to help infantry against enemy infantry and such. The main problem was that there was no overall command structure so units could zip about all over the place. The game felt like small engagements, not large army sized battles.

I did play some games a few years ago in which we used larger units and doubled the amount of time it took to manoeuvre, change formation and so on. That worked quite well, but it still felt like hard work. I'd like to try it again some time, but maybe not on a standard club evening after work – I don't have the mental energy for that sort of thing any more.

Which is why most folks prefer less complex rules, I suppose.

Paul

I loved 6th edition and still have the rules.