"looking to start wrg ancients. which edition?" Topic

My brother and I game off and on. We love ancients gaming, and play dba a little bit. So I'm relatively familiar with wrg.

Which edition should we play? Where can we get the physical rulebooks?

I think 7th is published as warrior these days. I don't know it it's still in print though.

DBA 2.2.

I played 5th through 7th and liked 6th edition best by far.

DBA 3.0, as it will have updated army lists and the rules look pretty good. Certainly some of the most hash-over rules I read about for a while.

3rd Ed as they are available free here
PDF link

You should try DBMM 2.0 it gives a good game. It is Phil Barker's most recent iteration of his rules system.
On Military Matters usually has DBx product in stock; if not, then try Caliver in the UK.

Dbmm looks fun.
I'm trying to get away from the tournament games (namely dba) as I want to do a more historical game. So the wrg 1st ed through 7th ed is my scope right now.

Dbmm, however looks like a blast.

I'm trying to get some 40kers into historical gaming, and want an excuse to pull out the good ol 6x4 and play a good multiplayer.
dba just covers such a small scope.

But its still my no.3 game…next to my own and impetus of course.

That aside, I am just interested in the older wrg editions, and want to try them out.

I downloaded the 3rd edition as posted above.

Skimming that now.

Try Basic Impetus they are free

I play basic impetus :) its my 2nd favorite game ever (behind my own)

The current version of DBMM? Cheapest/ best place to get it online?
One of the suggestions above would have punters paying about $150 USD bucks for the set. Is this reasonable? It seams to be getting into the price range that I begin thinking 'codex' and tend to avoid.

You may need to know some jargon.

"WRG Ancients" usually refers to the rules WRG Ancients 1st Edition through to 7th Edition.

These rules are all out of print, except that an updated version of 7th can be bought re-badged as "Warrior", and other versions such as 6th can be bought from John Curry's History of Wargaming Project.

wargamingco.blogspot.com.au

A few other rules such as the "Hack" series and "Might of Arms", etc, use similar mechanisms to 6th. Not identical obviously, with inovations, but enough to give you a comfortable feeling if you like 6th edition. But mostly better written ;-)

If I wanted to play a game like 6th or 7th, I'd probably be looking at the Hack series, to be honest.

DBA, HOTT, DBR, DBM and DBMM are usually refered to as "DBx". All are out of print, but some (HOTT) can be downloaded and DBA v2.2 can be bought from Curry. DBA v3 is being developed now (you can download the latest draft from the Yahoo DBA list), and DBMM will be re-printed "soon".

Hope this helps,
JohnG

DBMM is not out of print, it is the current main product.

aapch45 wrote: "Dbmm looks fun. I'm trying to get away from the tournament games (namely dba) as I want to do a more historical game. So the wrg 1st ed through 7th ed is my scope right now."

You will need time to try out all the options offered.

We have expanded the DBA campaign system for our 15th century Holy Roman Empire. While the list of armies is steadily growing, researching the period has helped to add extra facets to the campaign system.

To the right of page you will find an index to Storm Within the Empire showing the DBA system used for a "historical" game.

dbagora.blogspot.nl

Cheers,
Robert

DBMM is not out of print, it is the current main product.

DBMM is the current main product, but it is out of print. There are no more left. It has to be reprinted. Which is happening soon.

You will find odd copies in various places, but retailers can't get resupply until it is reprinted.

Cheers,
JohnG

6th is fun. There is a yahoo group.

It was all downhill after the 3rd.

In the normal TMP manner of suggesting something other than what was requested in the OP, have you tried FOG ?

WRG Ancients is rubbish, you should play Flames of War Vietnam… Oh, wait, wrong forum. Sorry.

More usefully, if you're using the free downloads from the WRG website, the base sizes are essentially unchanged between Versions 1-5 (well, for 20-25mm figures, they just went metric) so you can try them all with the same figures and see which works for you.

I haven't played them in years but, whilst more effort than many modern rules (written orders, tables of modifiers, actual record-keeping) they were always entertaining.

Note that they are really designed for fairly small battles, since they use a 1 figure = 20 men scale, so an Imperial Roman army might just be a couple of legionary cohorts with support from auxiliary skirmishers and cavalry. They're not really designed for "major battles". Contrast with DBx where you can "pretend" a base is a cohort, or even a legion, if you really want. Casualty "removal" involves tracking individual troop losses and when you get to 20 you can remove a figure. With a bit of thought you can use multiply-based figures from any other game so long as you track the casualties appropriately.

AND, if you really want to go crazy, you can use the 20-25mm base sizes and – get this – place 20 single 6mm figures on each base (5 wide x 4 deep) and you have an almost perfect 1:1 figure AND ground scale. Now that's a wargame that actually looks like a battle!

We use 6th.

We use 6th as well. I didn't play any of the other versions, but I like the feel and the way the game plays.

The rules seem so scattered!
Looked through every edition of ancients that I could legally download.
Combat factors, troop types, armor, weapons, charts, tables and more tables!

Its like FOG took the tardis to the 70s!

Still gonna try 5th.

Looks like the best in the lot (1-5)

1-6th was figure based while 7th was element based. You can download 1-5th, 6th has been republished and 7th was redone as Warrior. So as to what edition to play? Warrior is the end result of WRG ancient series. If you want figure-based rules, then go for 6th.

If you want to go for a free set, then IMO 5th is the best, but we never played with standing orders.

I find it amazing how many posters to this thread cannot pass a basic literacy test.
What part of "wrg ancients" were you not able to understand?

John,

I am amazed that someone can still be amazed that some people don't read the topic when posting replies!

Might of Arms. Influenced by WRG 6th but a better game in my opinion. While I got quite good at 7th, I have to admit that some of the mechanics made for interesting situations. Warrior is fine but the army lists got imbalanced in the last two books. Shieldless in the back rank only was a great way to sha ve points and get another unit or two.

Might of Arms is a really great game, fairly quick to learn and does not have a big base of tournament players. You also don't have to buy army lists as they are all included in the main book. Many a WRG 6th player that has tried Might of Arms is happy with MOA.

Where could I pick up might of arms?

MOA seems to be an excellent ruleset, I have it and it is on my list to try out. MOA is being revised for a second edition that should be out soon. See here:

home.earthlink.net/~bryantbob

Hey does anyone have a copy of the 4th edition they want to sell?
I've looked at 1-5, and 4 is by far my favorite (having not seen 6th, i cannot comment on it)
I can't find 4th edition on amazon, but I can find 1,2 and 6.
If you have a copy of the 4th edition rulebook (and potentially army books) that you want to sell (at a reasonable price)also interested in 6th edition shoot me an email me at

aapch45 at gmail DOT com

Shaun:

One of our Dba guys has a copy of MOA
gonna give it a try some time

Frankly I still like the 1st edition or which ever one had the magic/fantasy section with saints in it.

"Dbmm looks fun.
I'm trying to get away from the tournament games (namely dba) as I want to do a more historical game. So the wrg 1st ed through 7th ed is my scope right now."

The ancients rules published by the original WRG company were intended mostly for tournament play, and from which the idea of tournaments pretty much arose. They were seldom used for historical battles, but mostly for points based games with standard army lists. I think they were the first game system to have points and army lists (Column Line and Square might be the earliest, however). There were some scenario games in The Courier as part of the Chronicles of Maximus Gluteus.

DBA (1991) was also originally intended for tournament play, 1 on 1 but very much simpler than the earlier WRG published rules, with small standard armies. Soon after DBA was published, players began to use the rules for large historical battles, with multiple players. There were a series of booklets by Peter Sides to facilitate this (available from On Military Matters) The second edition included rules for big battles with triple size armies (no points in this game) and also larger scenario based battles.

The third edition, 3 years in the making, will be greatly expanded in complexity so not as simple as the earlier games. More components to make historical based games. It will have extensive and detailed army lists. There are rules for triple size battles, and for giant historical games. I have done many of the latter and they play out quite well. 50-60 stands on a side with multiple players, games finish in an evening's time.

Here is a PDF version of DBA 3 on the DBA Yahoo group.
PDF link

Bognar wrote:
The ancients rules published by the original WRG company were intended mostly for tournament play, and from which the idea of tournaments pretty much arose. They were seldom used for historical battles, but mostly for points based games with standard army lists.
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None of that is true.
The rules were intended for historical battles.
They could be (and were) used for equal points tournament play, but that was not their main purpose.
We only ever used them for historical battles.