"Imjin War - Hail Caesar, Pike and Shotte, or Black Powder?" Topic

Hi Everyone;

I've been reading Hail Caear and Black Powder from Warlord Games. They look like fun, easy to learn game systems. I would like to restart my Imjin War project with the beautiful Samurai and Korean miniatures from Perry. Which Warlord Games system works best for the period--Hail Caesar, Pike and Skotte or Black Powder? Could I get away with using Hail Caesar with some modifications or is Pike and Shotte the best system?

Please note: I am not interested in other systems, just the sets by Warlord Games.

-Matt

I played a samurai vs samurai game with Hail Caesar and was very pleased with the result. Only main modification I made is that the muskets gave a -1 to the save. Ashigaru spear got the long spear rule but not the phalanx rule.

Thanks for the useful modifications.

I agree that Hail Caesar is that way to go. The Imjin war really didn't have anything in the way of linear warfare, so Black Powder is right out. Since Pike & Shotte allows musketeers (or arquebusers in this case) and pikemen to operate independently the rules aren't totally unsuitable. However, despite the presence of firearms the armies of the Imjin war were still more or less Medieval.

The key differences in mechanism between HC on the one hand and BP/P&S on the other hand is around vulnerability to disorder and becoming shaken.

In HC a 6 missile hit triggers a test for disorder while in the other two the 6 automatically disorders.

In HC the typical level for going shaken is carrying 6 casualties. In the others it's 3.

I don't know the conflict you want to game but it is a question of how you think those variants best reflect your reading about it. Just remember that the whole of the BP family are more rule toolkits than rules and feeling them to fit is almost invited.

What odds you can survive this thread without someone recommending a different rule system? This is TMP.

Use DBR :)

No seriously I would go HC but its a personal preference thing….

I think HC too. It has better provision for leaders to get stuck in as well.

Leigh.

Neither the dense pike blocks nor the interaction of defensive pike and shot that dominated the warfare in Europe between 1500 and 1650 is reflected in the Samurai and Imjin wars, so I would definitely go for a modified HC (for some added arquebus/musket efficiency) for this theatre.

I also downgraded the ashigaru save to a 5,6. The samurai got the 4-6 save. No close range shooting for the spear, sword armed figures.

I would suggest pike &shot for this period, though HC will work fine too with firearm mods.

I think HC, because it is a melee driven game. I think this would suit the samurai battles better. I like the idea of -1 for gunpowder which somebody suggested. I play all of the "black books" I would def. suggest HC to you.