"Too many Romans?" Topic

After getting my hands on Hail Caesar in September, I've been trying to build a Diocesan comitatenses and auxilia palatini, leaving limitanei for later, although on my table I am currently converting a few Wargames Factory Anglo-Saxon Fyrd to ripenses for Rhine or Saxon Shore scenarios.

My problem – and not necessarily a bad one but probably a costly one, is that I suspect I have too many Romans for the size of the field armies.

Currently, I was trying to build as comitatenses : Primani Iuniores. Although frontage is what counts, I think I misunderstood how many figures I need since we're talking about 500 to a max of 2000 men.

What I have is, in units of 16 models, two ranks deep (incl. unit leader/standard):

15 x Armored, helmeted no-crest

5 x Armored, crested helmets

8 x light inf. archers

16 heavy cav. models with spear

9 light cav. w/javelin models

6 sagitarri models

9 cataphracti

1 scorpio

1 command group

For auxilia palatini Exculcatores Iuniores Britannicani, I organized it as follows:

10 x unarmored, helmeted models

4 x unarmored light inf. archers

+ 5 models of javelin skirmishers

1 command group

Finally, for ripenses, I put together

1 x archer unit

1 x javelin unit

2 x melee (with falx,double-headed axe, and one with a ship's mallet ) units

1 (so far) x armored classiarius milites

2 x tiny units of Romano-German naval scouts (4 models each)

Although the rules state that each unit represents "hundreds of men," I was never sure how many models I would need, or more precisely, how many standard size units make up a comitatenses or auxilia.

But if one comitatenses is made up of 500 to a max of 2000 men, that would mean that I probably should put only 3 to 10 standard-sized, two-rank deep units – maximum – into the comitatenses.

The same should go for auxilia palatini, if they are approximately the same strength.

I now have no idea how to judge the size (in standard units) of my Classis/Ripenses.

It presents a conundrum when it comes to painting, obviously I don't want to paint a large army all the same if it is only made up of half or less than half of the models.

I haven't bought Limitanei figures yet, I was looking at unarmored in hats. But I will wait to see what feedback I get here (and after the holidays). So that I have an idea of how many standard sized units to build.

I planned to use my Arthurians as Numeri, but that is only 5 units of unarmored Dumnonia spearmen and two units of Gwent spearmen with one unit each of archers. They're already painted but based the same: 16 individual models on 20mm x 20mm on trays.

If anyone could help me with the organization of the models, I would certainly appreciate the effort and information. If what I suspect is correct and I have too large a field army by half, then for painting purposes I could reform half of the models into another auxilia palatini and comitatenses, perhaps under the Italian or Gaullic command for variety and scenario flexibility.

Thanks in advance,

Richard in Saxony

you can never have too many romans

"you can never have too many romans" just what I was thinking! :-)

I guess I set myself up for that… somehow I knew that was coming!

One of the advantages of Hail Caesar rules is that all units fall into the three sizes (small, standard and large). As long as the armies on both sides follow the same basic mountings the armies are OK. Also number of units per division and number of divisions can be adjusted (up in both cases if needed).

I have an early imperial roman (15mm) with 10 cohorts (24 figs each) and 8 auxiliaries (12 to 24 figs each). Can fight my early Germans in west or Han Chinese in east.

Roman Civil War, only time there are too many Romans

If you base you models with 4 figures on a 40x40 square you can mix and match your units to suit your needs. If you need 12 figures to represent a unit use 3 bases. If you need 16 figures then use 4.

You might find that this system will also be good for other rules sets that you may try out later.

Thanks everyone for the advice. The 40 x 40 bases are really a good idea.

Nevertheless, there is still the order of battle problem. Looking through my materials again last night I saw in the back of Fall of the West an illustration of an auxillia unit made up of three ordines.

That is kind of what I was trying to build. My comitatenses, for example, is currently four ordines (one of heavy melee, three of spearmen.) Each ordines is made up of four Hail Caesar standard-sized infantry units, two ranks deep (16 models) and two standard-sized units of light infantry archers – six standard-sized units per ordines. Four ordines in the comitatenses.

That is probably too big for a comitatenses. While the scenario will dictate how large the forces are and one doesn't have to use the whole comitatenses, I don't want to paint a larger army than is historically plausible.

It would be better to take the excess models/units and build and paint a second comitatenses and auxillia who operated in a different region than Britain/Gaul… say the lower Danube or some such.

So it comes down to how many Hail Caesar standard-sized units make up an ordines (and do those ordines include archers or are archers a separate unit within the Hail Caesar division?)

From there I can find out how many ordines a particular comitatenses and/or auxillia had and build/paint from there.

Thank you again

Too many Romans? I thought this was going to be a complaint that all the current 15mm Kickstarters seem to be for Romans… and not a lot else. boo!