"Dominions II, AoA style?" Topic

Recently I've been hooked on the computer game Dominions II: Ascension Wars. The factions included are a refreshing change from the Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, and Evil Men of Warhammer or D&D. I like the factions so much that I'm thinking of converting them to a fantasy game. I suppose I could try cramming them into WHFB, but I'm thinking of picking up a copy of Armies of Arcana instead.

One problem might be Dom2's focus on super-characters. I've got the impression that AoA is more troops-based. Is it still possible to create army-destroying characters and monsters if you spend enough points? How well does the system handle magic items?

It would be easy enough to design powerful characters, although you might have to change the 60-40 rule (60% troops, 40% characters/monsters/elites).

There are no magic items in AoA, per se. You can make an attack magical (i.e., a magic sword) and/or have it cause eldritch damage but the effects are pretty limited. "Magic" on a weapon means that it treats magical armor as normal armor while "eldritch" damage means that saves are taken against the target's magic rating rather than its armor rating.

It is generally NOT possible to design specific magical abilities/items that can be assigned to figures at a set cost. So many of the stats, attacks, and other descriptors of the figure are multiplicative in cost rather than additive. So, for example, a bow may cost X for a 1-wound skill 3 figure while it costs Y for a 3-wound skill 5 figure.

For all that, it is an excellent game. Monsters act like monsters, heroes like heroes. Magic is powerful but not overwhelming. Troops are survivable. In fact, any 100-point figure(s) versus any other 100-point figure(s) has/have an equal chance of winning. The key is to mass several units against small parts of the enemy's line and destroy them. Oh, and it plays M U C H faster than Warhammer.

I don't have anything of substance to add to the discussion, but I do love Dominions II. If you can get past the mediocre graphics and non-intuitive user interface, there is a wealth of depth and richness to the game play.

If you add in the spell lists, it would be fairly easy to make super-characters. Its very easy to make characters that wipe out units just with melee or missile skills, and any direct damage spell could be added up within the normal melee or missile attack points.

The system doesn't come with magic items, as I thought it tended to lead to character heavy games, but it would be easy to adapt.

If you want to give some examples of characters or powers you'd like to make, we could see if they'd work with the system right here.

This is an excellent idea. I have really enjoyed DOM II and hope to see DOM III at some point. I think this setting would add some new spice to the genre and typical fantasy battle.

There might be a bit of difficulty with some of the magical adaptations. Example: I am not sure how you would work out "Blood Magic"… other than to have a unit that is sacrificed in battle to power the magic spells. Might get a bit gruesome.

Great idea though. Looks like I have an excuse to paint some more 15mms.

DomII is a great game but I don't really think it translates easily to minis.

Go a few years back to MoM which I think should translate better.

Ok Thane, here's an example. I don't have DomII on this system so this is mostly from memory:

Wraith Lord (an Undead General with skill in Death Magic)
Wraith Sword – two-hander that steals HP when it strikes
Ring of Fire – immunity to fire attacks/spells
Armor of the Monolith – massive armor suit that fatigues the user
Girdle of Might – reduces fatigue (counteracts Armor of Monolith)
Boots of ??? – Give the wearer "Trample", maybe impact hits like a WHFB chariot?

So through the use of magic items, a moderately melee-capable spellcaster/general becomes an armored elephant/chariot immune to fire.

The armorand the girdle are the only things that would need something really new. Well, actually, since the girdle is just counteracting the effect of the armor, its probably simplest just to count them as a set that giver armor 4 fixed (or 5 fixed, if this thing is really, really uber).

I think the sword should pay the regeneration price as part of the base cost – get a regen roll for each wound caused (3 or less to recover a wound).

Trample is easy, just give it a nice ram attack. Chariots do 6, 9 or 12 attacks for light, medium or heavy.

A wraith would normally be Arrow immune in AoA, though magical missiles, gunpowder and artillery could hurt him.

So, assuming this guy is a real bad ass even without the equipment:

Move 8", ignores terrain (being all wraithy)
Wounds: 5
Armor: 4 Fixed, Arrow Immune, Evasion (1)
Magic Resistance: 4 (typical for spell casters), Fire Immune
Morale: 10 Fearless
Melee: 4 skill 4 attacks, strength 2 magic (I figure that girdle is adding strength, along with the enchanted sword), first strike (typical for most heros), life stealing (which is a regenerate).
Missile: none listed, but skill 3 if you buy him something.
Special: Undead, Ramming 9 skill 3, strength 1 (ramming is essentially a first strike attack on the turn of engagement, but it can be denied by slowing spells or fliers). Death Magic Caster. Fearsome.

That comes out to 574 points :) About the same as a dragon, or 3 lords for most armies. A typical human unit of 20 medium spears + a champion is ~425 points. He would probably kill the champion plus a half dozen men on the turn of contact, maybe more if he was casting a spell. He might still take a morale test because of mass if he engaged the front of a Rank and File unit, but would be unlikely to fail, and could take wounds instead of running if he failed. With two different ways of regenerating (life siphon is a death magic spell), he'd probably be fine, maybe taking a wound or two when it was all said and done.

This is far and away the nastiest character I've made for AoA, though there are nastier monsters. I'd say that this didn't stress the point system out, as I can see fair fights against 574 points of characters from other armies, but it is a LOT of power in one figure.

Wow, that's pretty cool. I'll definitely need to get AoA, you've laid to rest my concerns about handling magic items.

Mine too, actually:
I was put off as bit in that I continually heard that AoA is better suited to mass combat only, but if it can do that….

Well, my goal was to focus on troop maneuver, but that is done with the "mass" rules for morale and overruns, the way I made "generic" heros for each army (elf lord, barbarian champion, etc) and the 60/40 basic/elite point limitation in normal battles.

There is no reason you have to play with the point limitation, nor any reason you can't make over-the-top creatures and heros. The rules still function well, though the one thing you won't see is a decline in power as wounds are taken, such as what you would see in many skirmish or Clix games.

One scenario we've run is a Monster Bash, where each player takes X points of monsters as a band, and then everyone decends on a happless village to see who can get the most trophies – including the ones they can steal off the bodies of other monsters.

I've got another similar scenario for heros on a goblin hunt, though I've not run it yet.

A couple of younger players told me that they sometimes played the game with one 1500 point creature each they would make to fight against each other. They seemed to have a lot of fun with 30 wound dragons bashing each other for a few rounds, though I could think of many modifications I'd make to run that kind of game less abstractly.

It really is a quick, intuitive and solid system. There are ways to break the point system, but the results are so obvious in their goal to break the point system that the veto can easily be justified.