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Armies of Arcana

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The Lost Soul20 May 2002 2:20 a.m. PST

I'm pretty new to wargaming and have devoted a lot of money into 40k which is the game of choice at my local mom and pop game store. I've had fun with it, but i keep thinking that WHFB looks fun too. Of coarse i can't play 2 GW games at once, no one has the funds to pull that off, so I've been looking at other systems.

Armies of Arcana has really caught my eye. I like what i hear about it and the details i have gathered of the rules fit what I'm looking for.

My first question is: Do any of you have any comments on the rules?

There not expensive so I think I'll pick up the book and hold off on buying figures.

My second question is: There 15mm figures are very reasonably priced. You can get 160 model army for around $70. Only thing is that they're not very aesteticly pleasing. However for the price, you can't go too wrong. Oh yes, back to the question: DO any of you have any advice on where to get 15mm fantasy figures? Where can i get the best looking ones and where can i get the best looking ones... for the price? lol

This is my first post so let me thank everyone for helping a youngin' out in this wonderful world of gaming :)

comitatus20 May 2002 2:32 a.m. PST

if you're scaling down for fantasy games, demonworld is probably a good bet - solid miniatures, though i'm not sure about the prices. my personal favourites are evil gong miniatures (http://members.optusnet.com.au/~dfmbrown/) - they're fairly unusual as the normal fantasy fare goes, and might not sit entirely well with AOA.

The Lost Soul20 May 2002 2:54 a.m. PST

thanks, Comitatus, demon world figures are pretty good looking, although maybe a little too rennisance (i dont like those frilly hats). I cant figure out how much they are though. for 40 infantry it says "23,47 € 45,90 DM", can anyone tell me what that means to an American like myself?

ghorvers20 May 2002 4:26 a.m. PST

Here's another one you might like: http://www.warrioronline.demon.co.uk/fantasy/15fantasy.htm

For price conversions use http://www.xe.com/ucc/.
The above 23,47 € (45,90 DM is "is obsolete and is no longer legal tender") translates into 21.60 US$

Personal logo BrigadeGames Sponsoring Member of TMP20 May 2002 4:43 a.m. PST

Alternative Armies has a great and very reasonable line.

Get them at:
http://www.brigadegames.com

Regards,

Lon Weiss
Brigade Games

GARNESS20 May 2002 7:00 a.m. PST

Look into Black Raven. They are fairly nice and inexpensive( 50 figures for $12.00) They have a fairly extensive line. The demonworld are nice but I think they are way to expensive( 24 figs for $24). Almost anyone who carries Battlehonors or Old Glory 15s will have them. Go to the Battlehonors website for a complete list. I think these will be what you are looking for. The figures are of high quality and in the price range you want.

Luisito20 May 2002 7:05 a.m. PST

Why just you just keep up playing WHFB with 15 mm or even 25 mm fromather manufacturers
for 15 mm have a look on black Raven foundry . they very nice http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/miniatures/black-raven/
Reaper does a nice line of 15 mm but they are oversized ,near 20 mm

Pontifex20 May 2002 8:21 a.m. PST

Irregular has an extensive line of 15mm fantasy. The quality is hit or miss on some, but they paint up to look nice and are very inexpensive.

Demonworld figures are superb in quality, but they are just as expensive as GW products.

Black Raven's figures are quite good, but their selection is not as broad as it could be just yet.

The Lost Soul20 May 2002 11:57 a.m. PST

Thanks guys for the help (and keep it coming!).

This is what I got so far:

Alternative Armies: 4/$1 - Look pretty good, but not enough selection to swing me over. Will need to give it more thought.

Black Foundry: 3/$1 - AA figures look better and Black Foundry's selection isnt that much better so im pretty much ruling them out.

Demonworld: 2/$1 - By far the best figures, visually, and BY FAR the best selection. Its really too bad the cost so much. I'm keeping one eye on these untill i decide though.


what's battlehonors? do you have a web address?

Talron20 May 2002 3:29 p.m. PST

You may want to hold off on getting the rulebook. Thane is coming out with a 4th edition hopefully this summer. Of course you will be able to download any new rules from his website.

I've purchaced most of my 15 mm's from Thane himself. Their mostly Reaper's 15 mm line. I've always received great service from Thain, any problems were quickly resolved with an e-mail or two.

AOA is a great game.

Rob

The Lost Soul20 May 2002 4:03 p.m. PST

II was going to buy it next month anyway, so maybe it will be out by then, but i thought i read that if they come out with a new printing, he'll send the new nook to ppl to purchased a previous addition. Is that wrong?

captain arjun Fezian20 May 2002 8:23 p.m. PST

I use AA and I must say their range is limited. Due to differences between manufacturers regarding figure size (and it becomes a major issue if you are playing dwarves!) it is not always possible to mix figures from different lines.
I say use 15mm, but base them such that you can use them for the different sets. I base mine to WRG standards, but use Warhammer Ancients (yes,that's right, Ancients) Battle for my games. You will find that with 15mm, youhave much more room to manoeuvre.

Talron21 May 2002 7:12 a.m. PST

Retro77,
Thane will post all of the new rules and changes between editions on his website so you are not forced to buy the new rulebook.
The story about him sending new books out was for one of his early editions. Apparently the first print run was missing important sections, so he sent revised copies to people who bought the defective copies. I don't think he sends new copies out just because of a new edition.

Rob

Crusoe the Painter21 May 2002 8:33 a.m. PST

Black Raven does have some nice figs, seen them at the local store.

-Crusoe-

The Lost Soul22 May 2002 12:26 p.m. PST

Retro77,
I have been playing Armies of Arcana with Thane almost from the beginning. I love the game, which I play in both 15mm and 25mm. I would recommend buying an army from his website because he gives good deals on starter armies. If you have any questions about the rules, which are radically changing, email me at frogstar168@yahoo.com. I will be happy to discuss thing with you.
SoulForged

The Lost Soul22 May 2002 2:43 p.m. PST

why thank you SoulForged. I'll be sure to send you an email :)

The Lost Soul22 May 2002 7:17 p.m. PST

other than SoulForged, I havnt heard any opinions of Armies of Arcana.

Does any one have any comments about the ruleset?

Turtle22 May 2002 9:42 p.m. PST

Thane just posted something in his news that lists many 15mm miniature manufacturers. Here's the link

http://www.thanesgames.com/miniaturelinks.htm

I recently dropped out of WHFB due to high cost, lack of new players (because of that high cost), and little time. I'm going to buy a copy of AoA to try over the summer, it seems interesting enough. Besides, I've got a friend that I know will play, but he's only 15 so he can't afford much of an army. Of course, 5-10 models for $5-$10 can be afforded by most, including him.

I'll post back here with my comments on the rules.

Thane Morgan23 May 2002 12:04 p.m. PST

Hi, I'm the Thane in question.

I've got pictures up in the catalog again for many of the figures, I think the figures are very aesthetically pleasing, perhaps is my painting or photography thats bad :)

I sell many of the 15mm figures from the Reaper and Black Raven Foundry lines, and some historicals from Battle Honors USA that relate well to AoA. You can play in 25mm or 15mm, I prefer 15mm because of cost, storage and number of figures I can put on the table, but many use their WHFB figures or Clanwar or Ral Partha or whatever (I now have 3 25mm armies and 5 15mm armies). I sell the 15's because not many stores carry them.

There used to be a good number of AoA reviews on The Miniatures Page, when they did surveys - I think that stuff is still archived. AoA was the only fantasy game that the majority of people who tried multiple game systems called their favorite. There are also some reviews on my site, though of course that should be taken with a grain of salt. I will tell you I have averaged a game a week for at least three years now, and I've never been bored with it. I honestly think it was the best fantasy rules set for single based figures, and the new edition is coming out to be three times better than the old.

I expect the new printing to be available by the end of july. It would probably have been done in june, but I'm having troubles with the print service that has done the covers.

Unless you want the old book as a collectors item or can't wait to start, I recommend waiting. The new book will be more expensive, but will have more armies and enough will change to make having a concise list of rules in one book worthwhile. Most changes are small, but those are the kind that easily slip by.

As to figures. The nice thing about 25's, especially those of a race compatable with WHFB, is that it will always be relatively easy to find a person to play a game. Though I personally feel anyone who plays with 15mm figures will prefer them, most people don't even know they exist.

You are welcome to e-mail me if you would like to get some sample 15's though (or ask any questions, but you are welcome to do that here too). The nice thing about 15mm is that you can build two or three (or four or five...) armies for the price of a single 25mm army.

Thane Morgan
thane@thanesgames.com
www.thanesgames.com

The Lost Soul23 May 2002 1:13 p.m. PST

Thanks for the info, Thane. I really appreciate your honesty about waiting for the next edition instead of just trying to get me to buy one of the existing ones (Basically what GW does).

I'll stick with making friends at the local store playing 40k until July (hey, my birthday, there's a possibility) when I'll pick up your book and maybe a dwarf amry.

Thanks :)

Turtle23 May 2002 4:22 p.m. PST

Thanks, I was just about to e-mail you about when the 4th printing was going to be released.

I'm looking forward to it.

Thane Morgan23 May 2002 7:41 p.m. PST

I've got about 5 rulebooks left anyways... so I'll tell ya what I'm gonna do.

I'll have a Miniatures Page Message Board special going while supplies last. Anyone who orders a core army set and e-mails me a note afterwards will recieve a free .. that's right... free 3rd edition rule book, perfect for playing fantasy wargames or even wrapping fish! Thousands of household uses!

Also, there are a few reviews here on the miniatures page. I think there used to be more, not sure where they went though. http://theminiaturespage.com/rules/fan/aoathink.html

Thane

The Lost Soul23 May 2002 11:00 p.m. PST

ahhhhh, damn

Well, count me out. I didnt have the dow for a $70 army anyway, and wanted to read the rules before i but little guys lol.

no biggie, free rules will make someone else with enough dough happy. I was going to buy the 4th edition anyway so doesnt really matter

Turtle24 May 2002 12:53 a.m. PST

I'm eyeing that undead army. It looks like they're all from reaper, which is the place I was going to get my initial army from, but somehow either the paint or the lights are off in those pictures, they don't seem as smooth as the reaper undead figures. And I have no clue what's in the Undead Army Box

Although, since my friend has a great deal of leftover WHFB elves, I'm also looking for a good cheap set of 28mm fantasy armies. But I'm a stickler for quality, and the only 28mm models that come in packs for cheap don't look that great. Two main things I'm looking for are smoothness and the look of the army when ranked up.

Landorl24 May 2002 10:47 a.m. PST

I mix and match miniatures. Demonworld orcs and Black Raven Orcs mix pretty well. The BRF greater orcs are a bit large. Gladiator miniatures has some excelent medieaval minis that were orriginaly sculpted by Hobby Products, and are very compatible with Demonworld.

Of course if you want a lot of human types, and want them cheap, Old Glory are ok. Their quality is sometimes hit or miss, but the price is ok. Unfortunately you have to buy in large quantities.

Essex miniatures also do some pretty good humans, though sometimes they can be a bit small.

If you can get them, Ral Partha had a line called Battlesystem, made for the old AD&D game. They are nice minis also.

There are a lot of 15mm manufacturers, but the problem is that they are not all compatible in size. However for the most part that is only a problem when they are in the same unit.

15MM is a great scale for larger battles.

Thane Morgan24 May 2002 12:20 p.m. PST

Hmm, the descriptions keep disappearing.

Almost all of the army sets come with troops enough to make 5 melee infantry, 2 archer and 2 cavalry units, with command. Turtle, the Undead does follow this format exactly, they are reaper 15's, which are very high quality. Those are some older pictures, I know they don't show all of the detail I would like, but I think a friend is going to have a new army ready to be photographed soon.

I need to go through an replace the army set descriptions it looks like. If you click on the army set name, it should bring up more complete descriptions of what is in them.

You may want to look at the Reaper 28mm 4 and 5 figure packs, I think they are generally 7.50 and have very high quality. I just made an undead army entirely from reaper 28's. The nice thing about them is that they are metal and repose very easily, I don't think any of my 20 skeletons with 2 weapons are in the same pose now.

Thane

Personal logo Sgt Slag Supporting Member of TMP24 May 2002 2:35 p.m. PST

If you are considering Reaper 25-28mm figures, here is a link for their army packs (3-5 figures per pack), from Discount Hobbies, one of my favorite suppliers:

http://www.discounthobby.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=DIS&Category_Code=REAH

Turtle24 May 2002 3:08 p.m. PST

Thanks Slag! Those pictures convinced me, reaper's 28mm undead are the ones to get. I was looking for the skeletons with shields and the ones on that page are perfect. A little bending for variation and they're rank up perfectly.

Since this should be considerably cheaper, I might just get both a 15mm and 28mm army.

One last thing for Thane, AoA seems pretty suited for many different types of armies. Have you considered pushing your rules as a open license rule set? I've seen quite a few other people mention that they're planning to develop real army books/game worlds for your rule set.

Thane Morgan30 May 2002 10:28 a.m. PST

Wow, first time I've heard that. That would be interesting, butI've not been contacted for about doing such a thing with AoA, though I've been contacted by people wanting to include GSC2 rules as part of their RPG systems, or as part of some computer games. And both have been used by individual RPG groups wanting better systems for doing their D&D and Traveller large battles.

I've tried very hard to make them open ended systems, where you could do what you wanted to with them. I've put a lot of effort getting robust point systems that the players can use to make whatever they want. There are two unit types that I worry about being overpowered, which isn't bad considering there are around 350 unit types already in the official rules and probably 100 - 150 more that have been submitted by players for "unofficial" use. And those two are not so overpowered that I can even make a firm decision on whether they really are or why they are (Paladins and Oriental Dragons, if you are wondering).

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