"Review: Armies of Arcana 5th edition (Long post)" Topic

Greetings all,
I don't have a blog page as of yet, but did wish to post this. I hope that this helps someone considering getting the game.

A Review of: Armies of Arcana (5th Edition) made by Terrain Warehouse

General Info:
118 Pages, Color, including 17 armies, 4 pages of Monsters, Reference sheets and Templates.
Dice Conventions: d6 (and multiples thereof)

There are 6 phases to a game turn: 1) Fleeing Phase, 2) Movement Phase, 3) Magic Phase, 4) Missile Phase, 6) Morale Phase.

The game is "I go you go", but both players will complete movement before spell casting or combat is resolved. Melee and Missile Fire are considered simultaneous for both armies. Magic is not however, with the player who moved first having the option to cast first or last. This can be important as each spellcaster in the game can only cast once each turn.

The individual Phases are broken down and the information given is clear and concise. The only downside at all that I can see is in some of the illustrations and that is because it's a bit difficult for old eyes to see exactly which way the ‘models' are supposed to be facing. The illustrations in the Melee section are much larger than the ones in the Movement section and are nice.

The Good:
Game Scale: This game is scale independent. 15mm minis? No problem. 25-28mm? No problem. The only thing you're going to want is your army based similarly.

Official Minis: None. You want to play with 15mm Demonworld minis? Go for it. 28mm armies from a certain British company? No problem.

Fluff: Kept to an absolute minimum (3 pages). It doesn't need the fluff, it shines as a rules set.

Artwork/Pictures/Illustrations:
Artwork: Some good, Some "ehhh", Some… see below.
Pictures: The pictures for the most part are very nice.
The illustrations for Movement, Combat, etc, are very nice and correspond directly to what you are reading.

Layout: Good. Props for setting the book up in the order that the turn goes by with each section having all the relevant information in it. The "Building an Army" section not only has the base rules for how your army is set up points wise, it also has creation rules for all the types of profiles used in the game (Creatures, Vehicles, War Machines) .

Game basics: Covers game requirements, terms used and gives very good info on the stats used by the models and what all the different abilities are. It's really nice to see these in one area instead of spread throughout a book.

Magic: The magic rules are straight forward and most importantly, magic is useful without being overpowering. Usually it's a better thing to use magic to buff your own troops rather than trying to blast your enemy's troops. Not always, but usually. That said, 7 of the 8 spell lists do have unit affecting spells, but your opponent can counter spell if he has the power. Some spells are Persistent and will stay in place to buff your troops, hurt your enemy, etc until dispelled (or enemy is dead…)

Movement: Handled very well with the added benefit of being able to use troops in Rank and File or Skirmish formations, where both of these have their advantages and disadvantages. It is possible to Overrun your opponents as you move, so a lone Ogre trying to stop 9 Cavalry is going to get Overrun. The aforementioned Ogre would get his two attacks… if he survived the four attacks by the cavalry that have lances so they get First Strike….

On Melee and Missile fire: The conventions are easy, with no charts: melee stat is: 1/3 = 1 attack at skill level 3. Roll 1d6 get a 3 or less, you hit. There can be modifications to this, such as your enemy having Evasion (1) which reduces your skill level by one (so your attack would be 1 / 2). Your opponent rolls a save based on armor, modified by the strength of the hit (if any). "Fixed" saves are only reduced by magic weapons and artillery and represent magical or otherwise special armor.

Missile Fire: Can be deadly in this game with some weapons (like a longbow) reaching out some 27". The front 2 ranks of a unit may fire. There are tactics, spells, and some troops that can effectively counter missile heavy forces. (Skeletons and Zombies are arrow-immune to anything other than magical and artillery weapons) There's also spells that can make your normal missile attacks magical. It all evens out.

Melee: Resolved fairly quickly with both forces usually striking simultaneously (exceptions being models with First strike and Last Strike abilities).You do not get a bonus for Charging as both sides are considered to be either moving into combat or bracing for combat. Certain models may make Ramming attacks as well as some others (notably Giants) may make Sweep attacks and strike multiple opponents.

Morale: fairly simple and straight forward, with a 2d6 test made to determine if a unit (or model) breaks or not. There are bonuses and penalties given depending on the number of troops you have versus the number of enemies you are facing. Fearless troops may fail without breaking, but they will suffer extra wounds in order to do so. (Strangely enough, there are no rules in place for Banners, so we have instituted a house rule that a Banner gives a +1 Morale Bonus to a unit provided it's at the front of the unit)

Armies: I did mention earlier that there are 17 different army lists in the book right? There are 22 lists in total available if you go to the Armies of Arcana website. It is obvious that the majority of these lists are direct imports from earlier editions of the game, but this is a good thing. For some reason the "Hogman" army list is only shown in the book and nowhere on the AoA site. Huh.

Creating new Creatures: The formula is there in the book. You're running a Skaven Ratmen army and you want the stats for a ˝ Rat / ˝ Ogre? You can stat it up. The rulebook has 4 examples of creation.
PS: if you really do want the stats for the rat/ogre let me know… I've already done that one. And some long-barreled riflerats, and a firethrower team, and… well, you get the idea.

The Not So Good:
English 101: Not too bad. A few instances of things worded weird and a couple of missing words but for the most part it passes the proof read (for grammar anyways).

Artwork/Pictures: Some of the artwork is of the "What were you smoking?" realm of fantasy artwork. I'm talking reminiscent of bad 80's clip art. No, I'm not joking. The pictures for the most part are very nice. A couple of pictures have obviously been photo shopped to be artsy-fartsy and honestly would have been nicer as an in-focus real picture. Pictures, are a good thing, really they are. It would have been nice though if there were pictures in the example battle, that corresponded to the example battle.

Reference Sheets and Markers: if you want these out of the book, you'll be cutting your book. Go to their website, download them and print them off. You'll be thankful in the long run.

The "You've Got to be Kidding":
Okay, this is way past pet-peeve here. If you are making a set of game rules and you include examples and/or an example battle, I cannot stress the following enough: MAKE SURE YOU HAVE IT RIGHT! Seriously folks, making common mistakes concerning the abilities of the troops in your example make you look bad. Real bad. The writer and the proof-reader for the example battle should be ashamed.
That said, this is the only part of the book that stands out as a stinker. The mechanics of the game are shown correctly, it's the stats and abilities of the troops listed that are wrong.

Overall:
Barring the snafu that is the battle example, It's a pleasure to play and its fun. For the cost of one army book from some other games you can have a complete, very playable game.

On a final note: Stay away from the AoA forum or make sure your anti-virus is up to speed. They are good people; it's just that the site they are using is rife with virus issues and caused my computer to light up with warnings.

-Patrick

Hi. I have been a player of AoA since the second edition that Thane first put out. 4th edition is pretty similar to 5th. However, 5th is much nicer and the layout is better.

I think most of your points are pretty valid. Missile fire really depends on who is firing and what the target is. The great thing about the rules is that there are usually counters to almost everything. The design system is simple and straight forward.

The games are very quick playing and lots of fun. I think it's what WHFB could be if they cleaned up the mechanics and had a consistent design system. We have played very large games in 2-3 hours. Our group are big fans of the rules. In fact, we are trying to schedule a game in November. There are loads of lists online. Plus a nice LOTR list. We have used it too. We fought a battle with several 100 figs, plus Trolls, Cavalry and Mumakil in about 2-3 hours. Unit sizes were around 30-36 for the Orcs. It looked great!

I'm curious which AoA forum you had issues with? There are two. I rarely go to the Official one.

I give this set of rules a huge !

Thanks,

John

Hi John.
I've been playing since 2nd edition as well, but wanted to give this review as a stand alone considering it's no longer Thane's baby.

You're spot on about Missile fire, and as I tried to point out, it evens out. High elves are just vicious with 1/3 Str(2) and a 27" range (so 1/2 from 27" to 36"!!) Which of course did nothing against my Skeletons (until she made their shots magical on turn 3 and tore one of my units up…)

Our games regularly run in the 6k+ range, completed in an evening.

The Official one, not the players one. I should have worded that better. The last time I tried to go on the official one I clicked on the link and as the page came up my antivirus registered 3 seperate issues. Mind you, I hadn't click on anything on the page yet, just opened the forum.

Thank you,
-Patrick

Yeah, the rules do have the effect of having players keep wanting to use larger armies or simply more of them. The game just cries out to use lots of toys on the table since it plays so quickly. Thane really did a great job on creating these. I'm only sorry that the rules aren't more widely played. They really ARE that good. If you like Fantasy and try them out I think you'll be pleased with the results.

I'm curious about what you think about the whole missile immunity thing? Frankly, I'm not convinced about Undead being missile immune OR that you can fire missile troops into close combat.

Thanks,

John

Actually, I like the Missile Immune for the Undead. I just can't see {realistically ;)} an arrow doing dammage to a skeleton or a zombie. See just about any current zombie movie/tv show for the school of "make it a head shot".

There are enough things that can counter this: Enchant Missiles (granted it's a lvl 3), Bless (lvl 3 but nastier than EM), Flaming Arrows (again lvl 3), All kinds of monsters that have magical missile attacks, Artillery (including handguns), any Missile that is Eldritch.

If it's that big a deal, take away Missile Immune and give them Missile Armour +3, (+4 if they have a shield) for a net cost of -3VP point to every model (-1VP if using a shield). This will give normal missiles a chance to wound, just not a very good one. eg: Skeleton with sword and shield, 17vp, Armour 2 + 4 missile bonus – 1 fom hit by a Goblin bow = Armour save of 5. Longbows and crossbows are Strength 2 of course.

This would have the added bonus of having a reason for your Skellies to be carrying a shield… :)

I have seen the other side of the coin where a missile heavy army just tears apart another army. It's of interest that one of the first Battle Tactics, Thane put up ages ago was: "How do I defeat a Missile Weapon-heavy army?"

As for firing into melee… I played SCA for years (obviously considering my 'handle') Society for Creative Anachronism. Historical re-creation group. Non-choreographed honor-based combat. I've done small battles and big battles. Archers WILL fire into melee. It happens. It's historical and occasionally hysterical. I remember one particular battle where an archer left the field:
Q: "Did you get any kills?"
A: "Yep, 16… 7 of them from their side"
Friendly fire… isn't.

Was wondering: what's your take on no rules for Banners or Musicians? (as I said in my first post, we have a house rule on banners)

-Patrick
who just re-totalled his GF's High Elves to find she has almost 10k….
And I definitely agree with you about wishing these rules were better known.

Umm, actually your remark about there being no official minis is wrong, I have the 15MM that Thane had made for the game.

there available here.

lonegunmangames.com

This is my choice set of rules for massed battles.

Period.

I've played for several years now, and still think this is one of the BEST rulesets i've ever played with.

Actually, you can just trim the magic part and play historic as well, if you so desire.

Thank you for a careful review. I'm sure it will be useful for many people.

Best wishes.

Hey Patrick. I am not excited about the missile immune for Undead since Undead are affected by bowfire in almost every other set I have ever played. I don't think it should be a large chance to kill them using it. But having a player show up with archers that are useless doesn't encourage folks to want to play the rules regularly. I like your idea of using armor. I will now steal that idea!

I have picked up some Mantic Undead to help fill out my Undead army. My active armies are Lizardman and High Elf. My armies that need finishing are Dark Elf, Undead, Skaven, Amazon, Barabarian, Empire, Chaos, Samurai, Roman, Dwarf and Wood Elf. I also use my LOTR armies for it.

I like the idea about banners. Been wondering about that myself. One of the things I immediately liked about AoA was that you didn't need Musicians in every unit. I didn't own enough so that was good by me. I don't mind having a bonus for using them. Just not that they are mandatory.

I mentioned long ago that they should release AoA in a pdf format AND probably should have a lite version of the rules to grab players interest. Maybe for 10 bucks. Then if you buy the hardcopy they discount the rules by the 10 bucks. The rules aren't widely available and their cost could be reduced by the pdf format. There hasn't appeared to be much effort placed in promoting the rules by the owners. They really are one of the best sets out there and deserve better. The design system alone should provide some impetus to interest new players in using their armies with these rules.

Our last regular game was 4 or 5,000 points per side. The LOTR version was about 5000 or so, IIRC.

How is your experience using Heavy Cavalry and what size units? I haven't used Knights yet. I did throw my unit of Lizardmen Cav into a unit of Dwarven crossbows and got whacked. Yeah I know, stupid! Last game I did away with skink skirmishers and just kept advancing to close combat vs my sons Dwarves. I used my giant lizards (dinos) vs some Giants in a fight to the death in that battle. I also haven't tried my Lizard flyers yet. I plan on using those against my enemies artillery units.

Thanks,

John

Good balanced review. @napthyme: There were "official minis" but they were not official in the sense of GW. They were more of a convenience.

In order:
napthyme, If you are producing Official Minis I appologize. I remember Thane having official Army Lists. Some of these were in fact lists set up for minis that Thane sold (such as the Amazons)but the minis were for convenience not 'official' minis of the 'use these or else' school. Thane went out of his way to say that any and all minis were good. Not to be snide, why aren't there any official minis from Lonegunman pictured in the Rulebook? Also, Have you considered offering Core Army pack deals?

Side Note: TerrainWarehouse (Battlezone) used to make a series of minis called "Hogmen" that do appear in the rulebook and have their own special army list. Anyone know what happened to the range?

Magokiron, thank you. Also, very good point on trimming the magic and it makes a good Historical. Three Armies listed in the book are pretty much historical as-is, and 3 more from the AoA website.

John, I really don't think it makes them useless per-se, it's just that missile troops in AoA are expensive (as they should be)and they are a big VP sink. I think part of the reason I like them being arrow-imune in AoA is because they are arrowbait sword-fodder in all the other games. In AoA, undead minis can stand their own.

Glad you like the armour change, it was the easiest way I could think to do it that did not involve Evasion (and that way lies madness).

We have HighElf, Skaven, Undead, GiantKings and the beginings of a Dwarven army. 15mm – GiantKings, Dwarf, Undead, Marr, HighElf, Demonworld Goblins. If you need stats for the Skaven at all, let me know, I did a pretty complete changeover except for the ScreamingBell / PlagueFurnace. (Is it me or does it seem wrong that a man-rat in armour has "Swim"? That's the thing I have issues with.)

Nope, no mandatory Banners or Musicians, just the +1 for the Banners if you want to. We have toyed with Musicians giving a further +1 but still seeing how that goes. Morale can be tough.

Side note: Banner for a unit should cost same as model carrying it. so a 20 point Dwarf Axemen w/ banner = 40pts

Cavalry has been useful in most all of our games. Maneuverability is the key here, seeing as how most all Cav is able to move 16" to 18". Real tactics, terrain, screening troops and flank attacks are useful and deadly. Last big game she used 15 High Elf Cav w/ lance and 15 noble Cav with lance.

Who asked this joker, Thank you and I stole your line. :)

-Patrick

Hey Patrick.

Well its hard to call these anything other then AoA miniatures since they have always been marketed as such, I've only recently gotten some of these added to Mighty Armies.

well the reason there not in the rule book is Terrain Warehouse did not think that 15MM would sell well in the UK where they are based, so all the mini's pictured are 28MM in the book.

I have wanted to do army packs for quite awhile now, but even after consulting with Thane himself the answer to what would I put in there is up for interpretation on units and number of figures per unit.

So I have just given that idea up since unlike WHF there is nothing set in stone with AoA.

I really wasn't trying to be snide, it just seemed strange that the minis weren't shown in the book. Honestly, some well painted Amazon minis would have been a bit better than some of the stuff that is shown in the book. There are at least 5 different pics with pygmys in them. But no pygmys in any army list I've seen.

The Amazon core pack seemed like a nice deal way back when: one pack each of 20 Swordmaidens, 20 Spearmaidens, 20 Bowmaidens, 20 Warriors, 20 Scouts, 20 Blade Dancers and 2 packs 10 Panther Cavalry, plus a command pack of ten figures. 150 figures $100. USD
4020 points worth of troops not including command characters.

I have long range plans to start up a AoA blog page with full stat set-ups for the Demonworld range of minis, plus updating the Amazons, Wolfen, and a few other forgotten lists from the old days.

-Patrick

I have found that the best way to defeat the undead is to start on the defensive, soften them up with ballistae for three turns and then buff the missile troops with enchantments. There is also the option of creating missile troops with eldrich attacks (such as Elven Acolytes) so they can begin wittling the hordes down in turn one. There are also options such as air elementals which will tie up the undead advance. Anything with evasion and multiple wounds will last forever being attacked by basic undead.

Atleast, these are the tactics my main opponent uses on me. As much as he complains about my missile immunity, he likes it when his Empire of Marr has it.

I haven't played with the Undead yet so really have no experiences to determine how effective or not they are. I need to finish painting up the army first.

Patrick, I'd like to see your Skaven list. My email is
johnleahy55atyahoodotcom

One thing I noticed in our games is that units tend to stand in close combat for a while unless they are severely outclassed. Mithril Dwarves seem to last forever! I like the close combat carrying over for a few turns.

My youngest field about 2000 points of Giants in a large battle. He was amercenary unit for the Dwarves and Egyptians. However, he had no supporting units nearby. My dinos and Orc artillery kept whittling him down. When he did close with the Orcs he slaughtered them in masses. Just too little too late.

I still need to get a handle on when to skirmish with units. Did you skirmish your Giants?

Thanks,

John

WeeSparky, Thank you for the comments and info.

John, I sent an email to you with the list. The only suggestion I have one close combat: Roll lower!
On Giants: It all depends on the situation as to Skirmish
or not to. I usually have the Young Giants in RaF for the
Morale bonus and for the Ranged attacks and skirmish the others.

-Patrick

It's a shame Lone Gunman cannot get permission from the rights holders to offer a PDF download or even a spiral bound edition from Lulu.com.

I think that would open the way for a lot of new players.

I have always wanted to play these rules.

Kudos to Lone Gunman for picking up American distribution.

Patrick, I never got the email.

I agree about the PDF or Lulu option. I think they would easily double the player base. Plus, the activity level would jump. They really are an excellent set of rules and deserve a much wider audience.

Thanks,

John

John, I will resend from another email this evening.Please be on lookout for email from: pjvandy"at"hotmail

John: Glad you finally got the email. You'll notice right from the get-go that the Skaven don't get 'swim' as an ability. I don't care if you are a half-rat, swimming in armor is NOT anywhere close to being easy.

(For the curious, yes, I've tried it. Twice. Once was even on purpose.)

In the interests of spreading the word on AoA more, I'm in the process of setting up a blog page devoted to it. I want to get it a bit more straightened out before it goes up fully. I plan on new army lists for a a bunch of different makers including some updated ones for the 'evil empire' as well as a 15mm section for Demonworld and Splintered Light minis.

Sounds great!

Thanks,

John