"GW to Ares, point wise..." Topic

I'm looking to adapt some GW stuff to our Ares game, but as I do not play Warhammer I'm having a bit of an issue.

In Ares an unarmored, untrained, dagger armed normal Human will cost 7 points. A normal human wearing chain and trained to use a sword and shield will cost 15 points.

Could someone please tell me what these two figures would be worth in Warhammer points? I think I could figure out the conversion if I just had a starting point.

Thanks.

A skilled swordsmen is 7 pts with light armour and a shield.
A ruffian is 5 pts with no armour and two weapons.

Sturm
kingsfordminiatures.biz

What kind of conversion are you planning to?

Essentially, I think you should first try to translate the stats into Ares format, and then calculate the points value based on those stats.

Griefbringer

There's an earlier thread where somebody posted a link to Jervis Johnson's starting point for WAB point costs. It's probably about as close as you're going to get without picking up the actual Army Lists.

"Essentially, I think you should first try to translate the stats into Ares format, and then calculate the points value based on those stats."

Definitely the way to go. Ares point system has a pretty solid statistical basis, so the point values reflect combat effectiveness fairly well. Warhammer points are more based on gut feeling for a starting point, followed by playtesting to tweak. Ares gameplay also cares more about individual model effectiveness than warhammer, where many troops are simply providing numbers for rank and outnumbering bonuses.

I think I'm finally understanding the question now, so I'll see if I can help a little. It's been a few years since I owned a copy of ME, but I believe a "typical" banner is in the area of 1000 to 2000 points. So let's assu me a standard banner will be 1500 points. I'm sitting here looking at the ARES Bestiary (I kinda have a soft spot for it… :)), and in the Teutonics list, for example, a man-at-arms with a hand weapon and shield costs 16 points. A bowman is 23 points, while a foot knight is 40 points. A mounted knight weighs in at 147 points, while a mounted hero with shield is 151 points. In putting together a 1500 point force, you could have two units of eight men-at-arms (256 pts), two units of six archers (276 pts), one unit of five knights (735), one hero on foot (49 pts), and one mounted hero (151 pts). This force comes out to 1467 points, and has 35 models. The problem is going to be if you want to run cavalry or hero heavy forces. Those models, as a general rule, can start to get fairly expensive points-wise. So it all depends on the mix of models you're wanting to put on the table. Some of it also depends on the races that'll be played. 1500 points of goblins, if you're using the ARES Bestiary, can be quite a few models. I believe, for starters, I'd be inclined to keep the points the same, without any adjustment. Hope this helps.

Kevin

We are planning to use GW Mighty Empires as a campaign system and the battles fought with Ares armies.

So there isn't really anything Warhammer to convert as suggested. The Mighty Empires game refers to the armies as Banners, and each banner has a point value associated. Additionally, certian special events deal an increase or decrease to the Banners with a point value.

There's no reason I can't just use the existing points, but it seems better if I can adjust the ME points to Ares and try to keep the same…feel I guess is the word.

With the swordsman it looks like Warhammer points are roughly 1/2 that of Ares?
Would that be reasonable?

Ah, Mighty Empires!

Notice that the original Mighty Empire rules were written with WHFB 3rd edition (published in 1987) in mind, and that version has slightly different point costs compared to the newer editions.

Rather than trying to base your conversion on individual models point values, I would rather recommend thinking about how big games you really want to have on the tabletop. In Mighty Empire one banner represents 500-1500 points of troops, and with the logistic rules written to limit the number of banners that could participate in a game, so about two full-size banners (3000 points together) should be the maximum you could expect to see for a big battle (indeed, 3000 points in 3rd edition WHFB could provide for quite a sizeable force), while a smaller battle could involve just one banner per side, or 1500 (which still makes for a decent sized encounter).

I would recommend you to approach the size of the banners from the games logistics perspective: what is the biggest battle that you would normally want to have in the campaign (consider the miniatures available and time it takes to play the game through) in terms of point values? Consider that equivalent to two full-sized banners and there you go!

Griefbringer

Thanks Griefbringer, that's some good advice.

I had been thinking something similar, so I think I'll just go with your suggestion.

Thanks to everyone for the assistance.