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"DBR vs DBA-RRR?" Topic

De Bellis Renationis

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Mako1111 Feb 2012 4:16 p.m. PST

I'm looking for a rules set for the early Italian Wars, from 1490 – 1525, or so, and am wondering about the differences between these two sets of rules?

I know DBA-RRR is an unofficial set, but am interested in the similarities and differences between the two, and which would be best suited for my needs.

I'm looking for good, fun, tactical games, and the ability to use them for historical battles as well, rather than competitive play.

The ability to use them back to the Burgundian vs. French Ordonnance, Burgundian vs. Swiss, and Wars of the Roses would be nice too, if they handle these well, also.

Also curious how the above compare with Impetus and Maximilian, for the same periods?

skinkmasterreturns11 Feb 2012 6:04 p.m. PST

I've never played DBR condensed(only full scale),but I have played DBA-RRR. It's a fun game on its own,and very much so if you already play DBA. Of all of them,I like Maximillian! the best.It has a little more detail than the DBA types do.I cant comment on Impetus,have never played it.

One word of caution with Maximillian!,though.If you already play DBA the movement rules are not the same.Max is much more restricted,and sometimes frustratingly so,if you're used to the abilities of DBA.

For your listed armies,though,I would probably go the DBx route,as Max is geared more for shot than those armies allow.

Personal logo Inari7 Supporting Member of TMP11 Feb 2012 6:25 p.m. PST

DBA-RRR is pretty much DBA with new elements and very few rules additions. Best thing is

1. If you know how to play DBA you know how to DBA-RRR
2. They are free…..

FADBAG yahoo group

Phillius Sponsoring Member of TMP11 Feb 2012 6:33 p.m. PST

Out of DBR and DBA-RR, for fun games, I would play Maximillian!

It is by far a better set of rules than either of the other two. Although it has some quirks in the way it is written, it is supported reasonably well via a Yahoo Group, and is specific to the Italian Wars.

I play DBR at my club. The games are fun, not because of the rules, but because of the players. I no longer field Italian Wars armies (my favourite period) at the club, as they are so poorly represented by DBR.

I have never understood the reason for DBAs existence. Sorry.

On a grander scale, you might want to give Impetus a try for Italian Wars. We have tried it recently, and it is good.

Mako1111 Feb 2012 6:44 p.m. PST

Thanks for all the info, and opinions everyone.

There's a good following at the local club for DBA, since the armies are affordable, and easy to paint (with the limited number of figs), and the games play quickly.

Not sure if anyone is doing DBA-RRR, or DBR, but imagine they might, since they also play DBM and DBMM.

I've got the first edition of Max tucked away somewhere, so will need to drag it out, and give it a go. I like the straightforward way the rules are written, in it.

I've been interested in Impetus, and it seems to have a good following, and excellent reviews, but not sure anyone in my area is playing it, given the interest in the other rules.

The cost is an issue too.

I know Basic Impetus is free, but Impetus, with a couple of army books gets up there in price.

I like the larger armies, like are fielded in Max, or can be I imagine, with Impetus.

KTravlos11 Feb 2012 8:21 p.m. PST

DBA-RRR means BBDBA, so big armies are a possibility

The Wargames Room12 Feb 2012 11:55 a.m. PST

I would recommend you give DBR a run. DBR has a good following here, as does DBA.

I play using DBR's condensed scale and normal scale. You will find an article covering these two scales which may be of use to you. Have a look at the article "A Question of Scale" which can all be found here:

In addition click on "Latest Activities" for a selection of DBR related articles on my blog. This may illustrate some of the games to give you a feel for them.

Rudysnelson13 Feb 2012 6:34 p.m. PST

My group prefers DBA-RRR

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