"MOVING ON" Topic

Judging by empirical evidence FOG Ancients seems to be a dying set of rules. Although 2.0 didn't cause this, it doesn't seem to have helped the decline.

Personally, I think I will try DBA 3.0 in 28mm. A smaller simpler game, that will allow the use of larger more visually appealing figures.

What evidence? Still loads of players around here…

Take a look at Armati 2. We play it regularly and it's provided many entertaining evenings.

Jeez, if 15mm ancients gaming is replaced by DBA 3.0 I think I'll box up my armies for better times. I know DBA has it's adherents, but the scale and artificial limits of the game are a real turn off.

Damon.

DBA is set at a particular scope, I find Big-Battle DBA is a useful set that you can bolt on detail to taste.

David F Brown

Well that was an expensive (time in years and money) foray into new rules…..two rule books, x number of lists and now few takers at the Auckland club in NZ this year. Maybe a couple of games of FOG 2 but plenty of other game systems dominating.

FOG seemed solid and big in the UK when I left Oxford last year. The Darby World Teams a couple of years back was 3/4 FOG vs other ancient systems.

Saga sucks. Dux Bellorum is fun though pretty beer / pretzels and limited to dark ages. GW…whats the point in same system different period. And the others, Armati etc just to many to try.

The Ancients box is well and truely open and trying to learn everyone's favourite set of rules or pushing a particular barrow further.

Or going back to DBMM….shudder.. though I did like giving a General "Mighty Blow" capability 14 – 1!

FOG was fun while it lasted though, some very good games over the years so thanks FOG. Hmmm wonder what I can get for all those books…..

Delbruck,
What are the ancients players turning to instead of FOG?

FOG is still played quite a bit here, DBA meh not so much, and really "Saga sucks". Saga is awesome, not so historical really bit loads of fun.

Saga is a fantastic game; I think of it as euro game that happens to use miniatures.

We still play Field of Glory; it's a nice set of rules. But we only play scenarios and refights, not interested in equal points stuff.

FOG is still alive here in the Gulf Coast Region. We will have our 5th Tournament since July in December. Most of the players we have lost have left because of real world situations and not so much the rules. Although the debacle of the v2 release was bad enough. Unfortunate that you should be leaving the arena.

I think FoG-AM is stable, and quite well supported – but at a lower level than it was, say, two or three years ago. Undoubtedly.

It has definitely lost players to FoG-R and some to Flames of War. We've discussed V2 of FoG here before (I'm not a fan) … but I think it is certainly clear that it has not addressed any problems in such a way as to bring back any players that have leeched away over the first five years or so.

Players lost to FoG-R are lost to ancients, of course, but are still playing Field of Glory.

I'm planning to try a bit of FoG-R.

I still play Armati, DBA, and several other popular ancients rules …

Phil
btw I don't think that 28mm figures are 'larger more visually appealing figures' (any more than 10mm are smaller _less visually appealing) … they are just larger. If you like that, you like it. Each to his own.

Phil wrote:
Players lost to FoG-R are lost to ancients, of course, but are still playing Field of Glory.
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Err, why? I play FoG:R with my ECW armies, but that doesn't stop me playing ancients with FoG:AM when the mood takes me.
Surely most people play more than one period?

Lost to FoG-AM of course, but see coopman above.

I am, of course, _only addressing the thread above which suggests there is evidence of a drift away from FoG. The only evidence I can imagine can exist would be in tournament entries and games recorded. They are certainly down.

However my sole point was that, given I can attest to many who have dropped off the FoG-AM tally have moved either to FoG-R or to FoW … only those playing FoW are actually lost to the game, those playing FoG-R are simply playing a different period.

Whether people who have dropped away from the game have just stopped playing it in a statistically tallied environment, or have switched period, do several etc. is an entirely unquantifiable issue.

Phil

I played FoG quite a bit. It's a nice set of rules. But what seemed to drive the popularity of DBM so long is the updates to the rules and army lists. Variety really piqued the interest. FoG's stability is a blow against that I imagine. Perhaps it was too well done?

Berthier has rose colored glasses :-) Lots play in the Gulf South area but are attending tournaments less. The same thing is happening here in Texas (which is part of the Gulf South). There was NO FoG tournament at Millennium, only FoG: R. Interestingly enough, both the V2 and FoG: R share a lot of mechanics. They really fumbled the V2 launch as electronic only to begin with. While there was lots of playtesting, decisions to rules mechanics were not necessarily the result of the majority deciding but rather the core playtest group. Some of the changes were about appealing to those that felt something wasn't working for their army, rather than a needed change IMO.

IMO, nothing is replacing it yet. The most recent contenders are Hail Ceasar, Impetus and Dux Bellorum (probably missing another) HC and DB seem to have attracted a lot of 25mm players; although HC does have Warmaster converts too. Impetus is okay but may not catch on due to some abbreviations from the Italian (still don't get why they did that although Italian was my first language so is no barrier to me) Hail Ceasar probably has the best distribution and may win because it has attracted so many from Warhammer Ancients, Warmaster and other rules sets. I have not played it. Dux Bellorum is a mystery to me so far.

Might of Arms II is being playtested (I and my group are among the testers). Mark my words gentlemen, this is one of the rules sets to watch. Medium complexity and probably available via inexpensive PDF. Bob Bryant does not believe in expensive, glossy color rules. I am not objective here though as I am a HUGE fan of the original MOA.

DBM has a bit of a resurgence but very sporadic. DBMM never caught on IMO.

I think that BBDBA (4X the size of normal DBA normally) has possibilities. But will NOT appeal to those that want a more granular rules set. Much less fiddly than DBM or DBMM.

I have been a FoG player and was on the playtest list too. I didn't give input as I saw where this was going and my opinions really didn't matter. Good set of rules but areas could be streamlined.

Ancientsgamer I will point out that there is no FOG at Millenniumcon because no one in Texas would run the event. In fact, it has been quite some time since anyone in Texas has run a FOG event other than the US Team Tournament.

Like Phil, I am not a fan of FOG v2 but it runs rings around DBM (and I played that for a while) and is in many ways a second (or third) generation beyond Might of Arms (and I played it at Nashcon with Bob Bryant way back when). Might of Arms had its place for me but no longer meets my needs.

We all moved on/are moving to Impetus. They seem to be the current set in my neck of the woods in 28mm.

Plan to give DBA 3 a try also.

Cheers

Dazzler