"WAB/DBM basing - newbie question" Topic

OK I'm basically a fantasy player who's started to be drawn into the Ancients fold by some tremendous Sassanid Heavy Cavalry figures from A&A Miniatures and Gripping Beast. I've also bought the David Nicolle(sp?) book for painting reference etc.
Anyway, I want to start basing them up but I'm not sure if its possible to do so in such a way as to use them for both DBM & WAB - note I've yet to play or get the rules for either!
So, is there a conflict between the basing requirements ?? (I guess this must be a pretty common problem if there is !?).

There is a conflict - WAB wants figures mounted individually, and DBM wants multiple figures mounted on one rectangular base. But with a little ingenuity you can make it work.

If you mount them on 20mm square bases, then make some 60x20 and 60x30 sabot bases (WRG standard infantry bases), you can get close to the right basing. Many WRG infantry bases want 4 figures to a base, but I can't see anyone objecting to you using 3 to a base.

I am mounting my 25mm figures on 20mm square metal bases, and building sabots out of foam core and magnetic sheeting.

/hdan

on my website i have written an essay on this very issue.
http://www.margate36.fsnet.co.uk/bignorm004.htm
the website needs updating but hopefully you'll find it of interest.
(yes this is a blatant plug!)
n

25x40 for cav in WAB (single models)

60(front)x40 for 25mm DBM (3 models or 2 - not sure not got the army book)

Troop types are identified in DBx in part by the number of figures on a base as well as the depth of a base. However, the only possible source of confusion you might have by basing individually is with archers (Bow) and light infantry (Auxilia), the only troop types on 'deep' infantry bases and using either three or four figures depending on quality.

You will also get in trouble if you try to base individual cavalry on 25mm wide bases, since most DBx cavalry is mounted three to a base on a 60mm frontage. But 20mm frontage is within the published tolerance of WAB basing, and is a sturdy enough base. So you can get away with it, sort of.

However, saboted bases are a pain in the ass to use in DBx; since the bases are often in flush contact with one another, the only way to move elements is by picking up the figures, and if they aren't firmly affixed to the base then they will come apart at the most inopportune times.

In my limited experience there is very little overlap between those who like WAB and those who like DBx. I'd try and find out what's being played in your area and base accordingly. If both are being used then get a few games in first so you can decide which game (and which gamers!) you prefer.

Other Dave

I base all my ancient and medieval armies on DBM size bases, and put a few on seperate bases. All my loose miniatures are based on magnetic bases, so I can put them together on a DBM base, should I need an extra base. With my miniatures based like that, I can play WAB, DBA/M, Hordes of the Things, Might of Arms, all Saga rules (planning to try these very soon), and who knows, even more different rules sets.

As you see, I do play many different rules sets, all with the same armies!

Cheers!
Wim

Sorry, I forgot to mention Armati, one of the finest quick-play rules sets.

If you check under ancients there is a very long post on this very subject. You should get all the info and opinions you need there.

For anything smaller than 28mm base to DBx and keep a few loose figures back for "change". My WAB armies are 20mm plastics based for DBA 25mm standard and it works well for me. I am mostly a 15mm DBA player, WAB is just a sideline. If I were doing 28mm I would base for WAB, true 25mm I would base for DBx.

One thing the Other Dave has right is that DBx and WAB players don't mix. The DBM crowd treats the WAB players like a bunch of moronic fantasy players, and the WAB players tend to think of the DBM guys as a bunch of elitist snobs.

My guess is that if you are coming from fantasy, the WAB approach will be more appealing to you. The WRG rules (either WRG 7th or DBx) have done incredible damage to Ancients gaming, and ten years later the hobby is starting to recover with the publication of alternative rules.

However, you might want to see what is being played locally. I can virtually guarantee that the DBM players will not play WAB under any circumstances, and the WAB players will not play DBM. If the ancients gamers in your area are playing DBM, you might want to join in a few DBM games, before making a considerable investment in figures, to see if you can stomach the rules. If they are playing WAB, then, as a fantasy gamer, you should already know the rules.

As far as basing -- do not even think of mounting 4 Gripping Beast or A&A Sassanid cataphracts on a 60mm frontage. They will not fit. Three will not fit on a 60mm frontage. In fact, there are even problems using the 25mm by 50mm bases called for in WAB. These are really big figures. DBx was written at a time when the 25mm figures were 25mm or smaller. The rules have not been updated to reflect the reality that the figures have become dramatically larger in the past decade.

DBM players will engage in all sorts of contortions to make them fit, including facing the figures in different directions and clipping down the bases. All of these solutions have the aesthetic appeal of a grossly obese woman wearing a teeny tine bikini.

All of this really does not matter because DBx is not a 25mm game. WAB is. Some DBx players will tell you that DBx can be played in 25mm. They are lying. Yes, you will read about a few tournaments in England and a couple groups in the U.S. that play DBx in 25mm. They are the exception which proves the rule. If you want to play DBx, buy 15mm figures.

Zarquon is basically right, DBx basing does not work well for 28mm figures. It works well for 20mm and smaller. WAB does not work as well with small figures. Both games can be played with the "wrong" sized figures and each can be played with figures based for the other. However the two game systems are very different in feel, style, philosophy etc, that my advice would be to pick the one you like best. If you feel you must play both go with 15mm or 6mm for DBx and 28mm for WAB. And plan to limit your self to ONE (perhaps two) main army for WAB. The nice thing about DBx and especially DBA is that armies are cheap. I can usually buy an all options DBA army in 15mm for less than the cost of a good sized unit in 28mm for WAB.

Best advice though, and you're probably sick of hearing it, base for the rules that your most frequent opponent will be using.

I am far from an expert on mini rules but several things seem to stand out in my mind;

1. DB? and wab afficionados mix about as well as democrats and republicans. It's actually a mindset that will make you like one system or the other.

2. Be sure to do what you think you will really like. Dont worry about what the lemmings are playing, do what feels right to you. If you want to be in the majority go to your local football field instead, you are only allowed one choice there!

If you attempt to game in circles where you are not entirely happy you will burn out on it quickly and often look on with disdain at all the stuff you bought and wasted your time on. The stuff you no longer use.

To be honest, it doesn't matter a damn if you're going to be playing for fun rather than in competition.

At the Huntingdon club we have WABbers with their buckets o' dice mentality and we have DBMers with their appreciation of the simple elegance of a mathematically uncompromised rule system (oops, is my preference showing? :-) ).

The same figures cross over between the two rule sets without difficulty because the club players are quite happy to get on and play and have fun. We do have some competition and convention players and they have their own ideas accordingly.

However, if you are planning to launch yourself on the wonderful world of ancients might I suggest that you base for DBM (and yes you can fit the figures on with most makes of 28mm, it just takes a little effort and careful manoeuvring)and these can then happily fight either DBM or WAB depending on who is your opponent this week.

Naturally, when playing a DBM player, you will nod wisely and agree that the recoil rule is perhaps a little ambiguous but that the Creator clearly intended the following (insert favourable combat outcome as relevant).

When playing a WABber, one need merely impress your opponent with the size of your dice holder for him to bow before you...oh and don't use any long words, like, say, melee, it'll only annoy....:-)

(ducks rapidly to avoid incoming fire)

Thanks for all the advice guys ! Plenty of food for thought - I rather rushed into buying the figs because I liked them so much, without thinking about who I was gonna game with & which rules I was going to use - a schoolboy error ! :o))
Thanks again.

Bought them without thinking? What's the matter, Colonel? Lost your marbles? :)

My double basing plan:

I've just started putting together a 1450's Swiss Mercenary army in 15mm. I want to play DBA and I want to also use them as humans in Armies of Arcana (www.thanesgames.com). DBA has x minis per such and such a sized base and Armies of Arcana used individually based minis on movement trays (it's one figure=one guy).

My solution: Each 15mm mini is getting based on a 1 cm washer. Then for the DBA bases and movement trays, I'm going to use magnetic strips. The magnetic strips will be glued to some thin card or possibly thinner styrene. The hole base will be textured up and built up with some sort of filler (spackle, milliput, whatever) so that each 1 cm based mini will fit into little sockets that have the magnetic strip down in the bottom. The Armies of Arcana bases will be large (20-50 figures with 5mm between each base) while the DBA ones will be the regular size for 15mm.

The same principle should work for your 25s. It will be more work, but I think that it will be worth it for me to be able to instantly change them over to the different bases/movement trays I'll make.

I'm still not 100% on what I'm going to do with the cavalry. I'll probably have to get some 10mmx20mm metal bases and make rectangular sockets.

Nathan

For 28mm I like WAB For 15mm try Armati The rules are written in American English.

WAB makes no provisions for 15mm and DBx are written for a time when 25mm was the larger scale. I would suggest using WAB basing for your 28mm figs and look at getting the odd DBA army in 15mm (be warned, they are addictive - I have 16 painted and a further 5 awaiting painting). Alternatively the DBA 2.0 rules say explicitly that the basing does not matter as long as it is consistent so you can still play DBx with your WAB army, just treat two to three figures as an element and make sure you can supply both sides (not a bad idea anyway).

Or go to an 80mm frontage for an element. There are some players, however, who will make an issue of this. The answer is to put a card the size of the larger base under the smaller base. But some people do not like easy solutions.