"Warhamster Ancients & DBM Comparison type Match Reports" Topic

I played a Warhamster Ancients (not Warhammer) tournament in Devizes last weekend, and have done a writeup of the games, including some comparison-with-DBM thoughts at the end of it that people may be interested in.

Its posted on my site now

Tim
madaxeman.com

Thank you very much. Greatly educational about the rules (which I'm just learning) and the game mechanics and some problems with them verus DBM.

Very helpful.

Erik

Thanks, but were the continual references to "Warhamster" an inside joke or something?

Excellent battle reports Tim! A most enjoyable read.

We're hooked on WMA (and WM and BKC) now. After a fair few games you start to find that games do swing to and fro. Makes for exciting games we find.

Not sure what you mean – I though the rules were called "Warhamster" …?

"WarMaster Fantasy"

"WarMaster Ancients"

Both are excellent.

Dan

"Warhamster" is what John Kovalic calls WFB for the comic "Dork Tower".

The Quactica line (Lance & Laser) has a number of armed rodentia, though I don't recall offhand if any are hamsters specifically.

Then there is the Battle Hedgehog, currently from Magister Militum…

Nice 'comparison' – but I too was confused by the name 'Warhamster' as that is what we call Warhammer.

Pat

I am also sorry to have to say this Madaxeman, but you and everyone else was making the standard Warmaster Ancients Missile Fire error – that is –

EACH BASE ONLY ROLLS ONE DICE TO SHOOT

Unless I am mis-reading your report very very badly, you were rolling 3 dice per base, no? It was the constant references to the 'power of missile troops in Warmaster' that gave it away – in Warmaster missile troops are mildly annoying, unless you have absolute SCADS of them. As the arabs had 6 units of archers, you should have been taking 3 missile shots on each of your charges max, not 9.

Or am I reading your report wrong?

Pat

Nope – I was being hit multiple times. I seemed to remeber reading it in the rules as well, as it seemed outrageous to me, so maybe one of us is reading the rules wrong….? Or maybe its where WMA is different to warmaster?

oh – on the name thing – calling Warhammer Warhamster, thats just plain silly!!

Nope, it's the bad bit of the rules. The problem is that in Warmaster FANTASY they get lotsa shots. But in WMA it's one base, one shot.

That would kinda make a difference to the way the game played wouldn't it….

My other question – people seem to have been succeeding with multiple movement rolls a lot – the odds against this are horrible – were you playing all the modifiers – minus 1 for each subsequesnt move, minus 1 for each 20cm from order-issuer, -1 for enemy near, -1 for enemy to flank (as musta happened as they crossed your front – or were they miles away from you?) etc etc etc?

Last time I managed 3 in a row was when the unit was behind my own lines in turn 1 – it's just too risky otherwise.

Pat

Pat

ok – if we were playing the rules wrong, we were playing them wrong.

Multiple moves – well, it has some risk – but cavalry only need to move twice to move 60cm…. and some of them are warbands as well so they get a + as well as the ninuses.

He was risking moving a BRIGADE of 3/4 units of cavalry across your front sideways on on a multiple move?

He lost didn't he…..

Pat

erm, multi-shooting does happen..

Check your Page 41 – last paragraph in the "Shooting at Charging Enemy" explicitly states that unengaged stands shoot at each and every enemy who charges their unit, so ca shoot more than once.

But one unit at a time mate – how were you taking 9 shots per?

Pat

OK – maybe 9 was excessive. It felt like 9!

But, either way, charging a solid line of bowmen means the first unit to go in will (likley) take at least 6 shots (this is assuming you contact the end of line bow unit square on and so make corner contact with the next unit = all stands in both units shoot at you = 6 shots).

Then (assuming you go in along the line) subsequent chargers will take at least 5 shots each (2 unengaged bases being hit plus 3 from the adjacent "contacted on a corner" unit).

If you charge the middle of a line you could still receive 9 shots with the first charger. But that would sting…

In fact it's possible, if he had his four units lined up toe-to-toe, for the frst unit to take 9, if for example you charge on initiative and so have no choice but to hit the closes unit and it happens to be the one in the middle. But then, in your example, the next units would take a maximum of 2 each.

In that example, the maximum number of shots say 3 units can take charging the 4 units is 12.

But yes it would sting in the first case – that's why I wouldn't do it – I would try to get round the end of 'em!

Not much help there tho'. But it sounds in that case like they WERE playing it right. But IMHO archery in WMA is weak. Not as weak as in, say DBM, but a lot weaker than in, say Warhammer ancients.

The thing that interested me was how well you did against the Huns. They are a tough nut to crack for any other army except more huns.

Pat

Frankly the pre-set terrain was the key thinkg in that game – the Huns didnt have chance to use their LH efectively.

Ive now added a graphic that explains the shooting a little more clearly

madaxeman.com

Perfect.

Yup, wouldn't have charged them frontally , me….

Sorry for suggesting you were doing it wrong – you were just doing your own private Poitiers.

Pat

Of course! Charging in the flank is always better in any set of rules !!

.. however as a warmaster nooob (but having played lots of other ancients games) I didn't realise charging bowmen frontally with infantry was going to be quite as bad as it turned out to be. Which I guess is the real question – is this right?

Depends on the infantry charging and the bowmen being charged.

How unhelpful was that :-))

madaxeman, great report of the games, I did like reading them and thank you for posting.

I am wondering how in Game 2 you had units that fought more than 4 rounds of combat in one turn? I could have read it completely wrong, because I am adept to do that.

In my games, even if I destroy a unit on combat round 2 and pursue into another flank of a combat yet to be fought, my pursuing unit can only fight in 2 more combat rounds. If in the second combat the enemy unit is also destroyed my units that pursue first may not pursue again in the same turn, so can only fight in 4 rounds of combat. At least that is how I remember, since I am not close to my rule book, so being corrected on this point is a good thing for me.

I do hope you will post more game reports in your various game you play.

Who is the moron that left his first place 25mm DBM trophy in the flea market area on Sunday? If you answer this post with your address and describe what it was with then I will mail it to you.

Hoplite

Hey Madaxtman,

a great report and funny too!

I love WarmasterAncients/Warmaster Fantasy/ and Blitzkrieg commander too!

They are good fun and great simupations,,, between, good plans and luck,,, Alexander always made sacrifices befor a battle to the Gods! With my die rolling I should try to too

Cheers
Mike