"AOA versus HOTT: Looking for 15mm rules" Topic

Hello,

I'm a former Demonworld player, and I loved the game...but it seems pretty much dead.

I'm looking for a 15mm rules set that will allow me to create my own army lists and I've narrowed it down to AoA or HotT.

I'm a veteran gamer in my 30s, so complexity is no problem. I'm interested in a game that has good troop differentiation/troop choice options and solid mechnics (including a well developed magic system).

Have any of you played both AoA and HotT???

Are there any players of either game in the San Jose area???

If you want a well developed Magic system, then you will not want HOTTs. In HOTTs, there is one magic roll - you can call the spell anything you want, but there is still only one magic roll.

HOTTs will allow you be very creative in developing your own armies - from literature, to movies, to TV shows, your favourite cartoon, etc.

Fantasy rules is also good, although I have only used the 1st ed, so it very well may have changed somewhat.

I am not familiar with AoA, but HOTT is very generic, does'nt matter what you use, be it romans or lint, a stand of blades or hordes is just that. And that is fine if you want to use lint as an army, I have an army of invisible people that is just bases, and that will work fine for HOTT but not much else.

I've toyed with AoA. Designing troop types is relatively easy and you can indeed design virtually anything you want. However, the mechanics of the game itself didn't seem substantially different from Warhammer for me to justify spending a lot of time with it. But that may be just an artifact of most fantasy games being essentially the same in execution.

HOTT is indeed generic; no need for me to recap what others have said about it.

I'm playing primarily Wargods of Aegyptus nowadays, but in 28mm. I'd love to find enough 15mm figures to do it in that scale, because that is an excellent and clean set of rules that is different enough in execution to stand out. And the magical details are innovative and clever. There is no capability for designing your own troop types, though, although a quick linear regression of the basic troops will give a formula that is pretty accurate. But the formula falls apart for multi-wound characters.

[I'm a former Demonworld player, and I loved the game...but it seems pretty much dead.]

I guess it's only dead if you can't find opponents...

2 games with different filosophy. AoA is more like warhammer with each miniature representing one soldier. HOTT is better in representing big battles in a more abstract way. Do you want detail (AoA) or realism(HOTT)? HOTT like DBA (and Demonworld) bases 2-4 miniatures on one base representing one small unit. Personally i love HOTT but maybe it does not meet your requirement of good troop differentiation. HOTT is very generic (and ballanced as a result) Maybe Fantasy Rules would be a better system for you.

I consider each of these games to be the best at what they do.

Of games that mount multiple figures to a single stand, I like HotT the best.

Of games that mount a single figure per stand, I like AoA the best.

If it won't break your bank, why not get both? I mount all of my figures individually on steel bases, and then make magnetic movement trays for whatever game I want to play. Thus, I can play either AoA or HotT, as my mood dictates.

A caveat, though: if you like Demonworld and can't find opponents, it seems like maybe the question you should be asking is "what do my potential opponents play". If you're not willing or able to convert local players to what you like (I've never had much luck!), then it really doesn't matter which system you like best.

I've played AoA and love it. Not familiar with HOTT. AoA makes a lot of sense and allows for plenty of magic, heroes, and monsters without allowing these units ruin the rest of the game.

In the grudge match, AoA weighed in at a hefty 230 against Hott's 220, and had a 1" reach advantage. But Hott was a southpaw that AoA had little experience against, mostly because of a superstitious trainer who thought Left handedness was a sign of demonic possession. That trainer has been sacked.

AoA started the round with a flurry of quick jabs that set up a wicked left handed undercut that staggered HOTT. Unfortunately, AoA's manager hadn't notice that this was not a boxing match when setting up the fight, and HOTT tagged out FR!3 and DBF, who were apparently part of a team called The Multibased Alliance of Doom, and the three of them proceeded to put AoA into the previously thought anatomically impossible triple supline supplex legbreaker. Though AoA's trainer called foul, the ref was distracted by Vis Magica arguing with him about standardized element sizes.

AoA has pledged revenge, and has promised its fans to more closely pay attention when signing fight contracts. It is also looking for allies, preferably those with a proficiency in folding chair combat.

"(including a well developed magic system)".

It is true that the magic system in HoTT is very abstract and rather boring, but it is an easy thing to do to incorporate a more interesting magic system with individual spells.

As an example a wall of fire could be a combat dice role vs. a +2 or +3 maybe for any element which tries to go through it which might cause alot of bouncing against it before the element in question would be able to pass through it and maybe the element in question gets burned up in the process. Recoiling through it might trigger the same die roll in which case failure to successfully pass through it would mean death. It might require pip dice to stay in effect as an ongoing spell and the more pips used, the larger and more powerful the wall of fire should be.

This is what I like the most about HoTT. It's easy to tamper with. If you want spell ideas why not get AoA as well and incorporate those spells into it?

I know, I know. Blaspheme!

With more seriousness:

I would estimate AoA has stats for about 300-400 distinct models and troops now, divided among maybe 25 army lists and monsters.

There are 8 groups of magic with 8-10 spells in each, plus a small general list. I'm probbaly adding Pestilence and Technomancy in the next few months.

I find that people are less likely to buy into a game if they know it is not supported and in production, so it definately has been difficult to make converts.

There were a couple groups in DW whose figures I loved, but I just didn't like the way that they played. So, using their figures with a different rules system is very appealing to me.

"Designing troop types is relatively easy and you can indeed design virtually anything you want."

I know that this is true of HOTT, but if it is also true for AoA then I think that AoA will be the game for me.

So am I right that you can create units to supplement existing lists, or even whole army lists using a point cost formula in AoA?

I've been looking through Thane's sight and I think that AoA will be the winner for me :)

Thanks all.

Is there any reason why you have to pick only one? You can always make some HOTTs movement trays to put your figs on, and play both. I've always wondered why so many players think it's a rule that they have to choose one and only one wargame to play ...

Yes, a lot of players have made entirely new armies - Trolls, Maori, Egyptian, Ice Witches, Spiders, Amazons, etc.

I would definitely agree witht he sentiment of jstentz though. The rules are usualy the least expensive part of the hobby, so as long as you can port figures from one game to another, and your opponents like trying out different systems, it doesn't really cost much to try several different games.

Try Vis Magica.

vismagica.com

SirG

aka Robert Avery, Author, Vis Magica.

Is vis magica playable with DBx based armies? (40mm frontage). Is base depth important?

Andreas

athens-fantasy.tripod.com

I guess I have to pipe in and say,

If you liked demonworld, you'll love "for the masses" by Majestic Twelve

plug plug

mj12games.com/ftm

jim

(I AM a sock puppet, I just use my real name!)

I guess I have to pipe in and say,

If you liked demonworld, you'll love "for the masses" by Majestic Twelve

plug plug

mj12games.com/ftm

jim

(I AM a sock puppet, I just use my real name!)

My gut feeling would be HOTT. Why?

1. Its stand based and feels like a big battle rather than a skormish.
2. It plays fast, typical games last 30 minutes so you can play a few in an evening. In fact we do a campaign in an evening once a year.
3. There really is no limitation on what the armies are.
4. When making units stands offer so much scope for customisations and little display pieces, for example the Orc leader with his bowmen clustered about him plotting their next sneaky attack, or two Frenchmen chasing a lady on her Penny Farthing waving gifts of flowers and chocolates at her.
5. The online HOTT community is going strong and contains the nicest people around, plus you can nearly always guarantee a game in any city you visit.
6. There are numerous HOTT tournaments around, Berkeley of course being the pre-eminant one (and in typical HOTT fashion its not held in Berkeley but Slimbridge).

Sebastian

Thane - You was robbed, you was ROBBED!

Since both games depend on base size and/or frontage, size of the figures doesn't really matter.

Neither does, really, how many there are on one base.

If you liked Demonworld, you may find both of them too simple, Demonworld was way over my head.......

Maybe there's others like me, and that's why you can't find opponents.....?

Although I like both sets you may find more players with Warmaster. The rules are FREE and widely poular. I use my 15mm for them (as well as my 6mm).

Thanks,

John