Help support TMP

"Fatimids vs Seljuks with To The Strongest" Topic

To The Strongest!

4 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.

Back to the To The Strongest! Rules Board

174 hits since 9 Jan 2017
©1994-2018 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Rabelais12 Aug 2015 4:15 a.m. PST

A report on a Crusades-era game using 'To the Strongest.'

Terrement Inactive Member12 Aug 2015 9:10 a.m. PST

Good write-up. I've read the rules and like them but haven't gotten to play them yet.


Great War Ace Inactive Member12 Aug 2015 9:31 a.m. PST

Where do you get "screened" infantry bowmen from? Sources/evidence, I mean? I haven't seen/read anything that describes Muslim infantry archers shooting from behind a screen of spearmen.

You can ignore the question. This is just one of those personal focal points of mine. Such details don't matter if they don't matter to you….

Rabelais12 Aug 2015 11:56 a.m. PST

Great War Ace

I'm afraid my research for the Fatimids didn't go much further than the 'Armies of Ironbow' guide that comes with the Ironbow rules. I initially did the Fatimids for Ironbow and they have the regular Fatimid infantry as archers with a front rank of spears.

olicana12 Aug 2015 4:01 p.m. PST

To be fair, there is probably less said about tactical deployments than we would like.

The Byzantines were using mixed units and probably advised the Crusaders to do the same. After their first encounters with the Turks they must have seen the benefit of protecting their archers with spearmen. It is only down to 'Roman /Byzantine military manuals' that we get this detail of 'drill and deployments'. Most other written history is of a rather more narrative complexion.

Although little written evidence exists, it probably wasn't Richard who was the first to shield his archers with spearmen; his novelty was how he got them to reload and fire (IMHO).

Given that the Turks, Byzantines and Fatimids all operated in the same region, I find it hard to believe that such mixed unit orientated tactics were not common place. Indeed, perhaps the tactics were so common place that contemporary historians thought such deployment need not be described.

This kind of absence of 'fact' is very common in military history because the historians are working on the principle that common knowledge need not be repeated; they are there to tell you something that you wouldn't know: They tell 'the deeper political story'. This absence of detail stretches well in to the 18th century.

I would ask GWA to state his cases that would prevent such a deployment. If he can, then I will bow to his superior knowledge.

BTW, stating that an army 'deployed its archers up front' would not qualify, as archer units may have had screening spearmen as a matter of course in a cavalry friendly environment.

In short, show me the manual.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.