UnfortunateWound | 25 Oct 2012 3:01 a.m. PST |
A Wars of the Roses battle report using 15mm DBR: link |
MajorB | 25 Oct 2012 11:38 a.m. PST |
I tried DBR for the WOTR and didn't like it for similar reasons to those you state. The best rules I have found for the period is (perhaps surprisingly?) Hail Caesar. |
UnfortunateWound | 25 Oct 2012 2:45 p.m. PST |
I do like Hail Caesar, but I don't have enough stands for a satisfying game of it yet. I'm working on my own rules for the era too – I haven't read this many books since uni! |
Yesthatphil | 26 Oct 2012 3:39 a.m. PST |
I have run Bosworth using DBA V3 on a significant number of occasions as a Participation game. It works very well and gives a very plausible reflection of what historian Mike Ingram thinks happened at the battle. Yes, it is a quick game (so might not have all the layers of detail players might want for a full evening game) but it certainly has a good balance and a good tactical feel. Phil |
UnfortunateWound | 26 Oct 2012 4:51 a.m. PST |
So do you run that as three battles of four stands? Or 12E per battle? |
Yesthatphil | 26 Oct 2012 6:20 a.m. PST |
Notionally 12 E per side (actually 12 Yorkist, 11 + 1 Tudor) deployed as interpreted by Mike Ingram in his recent book
So the Yorkist Van under Norfolk is half the army, with Northumberland adding only odd elements as his battle does not commit. There is a significant artillery position and Richard commands the cavarly. Oxford (vanward) opposes Norfolk with a slender line. The mercenaries (left) and Henry's reserve (centre) deploy separately.* Phil *Additionally Sir William Stanley's cavalry may be moved by either side on a 6 but will only actually fight for Henry. (His is the +1 in the '11 + 1') |
UnfortunateWound | 26 Oct 2012 10:59 a.m. PST |
Interesting, thanks =] I assume it uses the standard DBA WotR lists? |
Yesthatphil | 26 Oct 2012 12:35 p.m. PST |
I assume it uses the standard DBA WotR lists? I tend to work from actual armies for actual battles. For Bosworth a bit of extra artillery for the Yorkists and, using V3, I used double based bow for the Yorkists (Norfolk)contrasting the alternating bows and blades of Henry's army (Oxford)
It gives a good representation of the massed line vs the slender line of the historical battle (V3 gives the double-based bow a combat bonus
) Likewise, I use a double base of spear instead of a base of pike – I prefer that interpretation and it does away with the anomaly of rear support. Again V3 stuff that might not make sense in terms of the curent version. I will however publish a full scenario with lists in due course. In 2.2 you would probably still benefit from giving Richard more guns, of course
Phil (there was a little bit about Bosworth on Shows North back in June) |
Thomas Thomas | 26 Oct 2012 12:35 p.m. PST |
I also recommend DBA 3.0 for both the Hundred Years War and the War of the Roses. These are my primary gaming interests and the new version of DBA does a great job with both. Previously I had used Hordes of the Things for this period and did not recomend DBA 2.2 for late medieval. Not sure about DBR. TomT |
UnfortunateWound | 28 Oct 2012 1:35 a.m. PST |
Thanks guys, very informative! I'll have to get some cavalry painted up and try v3 out. |
MajorB | 28 Oct 2012 1:24 p.m. PST |
I'll have to get some cavalry painted up Other than at Bosworth, very few WOTR battles featured mounted men-at-arms. They mostly fought on foot. |
UnfortunateWound | 30 Oct 2012 10:24 a.m. PST |
Yes, I know. But while I enjoy DBA, I find it to be a bit of a back-and-forth without a variety of troop types. |
Bobgnar | 01 Nov 2012 11:30 a.m. PST |
I have done many WotR games in 25mm with 2.2 DBA giant battles. Now tried DBA 3 Giant Battles, 5 "armies" per side, 5 players on a side. Great fun. Used new army list. New Fast and Solid types worked well too. IV/83a Wars of the Roses armies 1455-1485 AD or Tudor army 1486-1515 AD: 1 x General (4Bd or 3Kn), 1 x currours (Cv) or border staves (LH) or unreliable levies (7Hd), 3 x stiffened billmen (4Bd), 6 x archers (3/4Lb), 1 x guns (Art) or Welsh (3Pk) or Irish (3Ax) or men-at-arms (4Bd/3Kn). Terrain Type: Arable. Aggression: 1. Enemies: IV/16, IV/82a, IV/82b. Allies [1485 only]: IV/83a .
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UnfortunateWound | 02 Nov 2012 1:35 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the list Bob. Is DBA3 still available online? |