"DBMM tournament at Fall In" Topic

There will be a 25mm DBMM tournament at Fall In, played on Saturday, November 8th. There will be three games played, starting at 9:00am, but try to arrive 15 minutes earlier for lists to be verified.
We will be fielding 240 point armies, with all the rules posted in the rules book for DBMM200. The table size will be 6' x 4' and please bring your own terrain and drop cloth.

It is an open tournament, so any army from any of the four army list books are allowed.

Any questions, please feel free to contact me at lupastef@optonline.net

More details are posted in the Fall In PEL.

Lou Cardinale

Wish I could make it.

Any chance you'll be back for Historicon?

TomT

Not sure about Historicon, but we will be running a DBMM tournament at Cold Wars.

Good luck with the tournament Lou. Wish I was there!

JohnG

Glad to see DBMM making progress in the US.

I consider DBA 3 as different from DBA 2.2 as DBMM is different from DBM.

Fall In will be the convention we run DBMM in 25mm. Cold Wars, and NJCon will be played using 15mm armies.

Not sure about Historicon as yet

Hopefully word will get out and our events really start to grow.

Lou

Bobgnar MM isn't making that much progress here, have not seen any large competitions over here myself, I think the last one I saw had two games in the morning then sort of two games in the afternoon with one person playing two games so three players total in two games and that was it, where as the DBM and FOG ran over two days.
It isn't anywhere near the DBM or FOG numbers, we are having a DBM tournament at Fall In also in 15mm with 400 points on tables with pre set terrain to help speed things up, everyone welcome.
We have around a dozen players I think, FOG has the same but the DBA crowd at Fall In usually outnumber everyone and they do 2.2+ .

Numbers for DBM are way down from its former glory days.

I thought I would end my days rolling dice in a DBM game, until 3.0 came along.

I hope DBMM can get going in the US it would certainly bring me and I suspect lots of former DBM players back.

I think it would help to run events at Historicon – the largest of the Eastern conventions. Particularly if we can do a 25mm event.

As to turnout old WRG7th (now Warrior) seems to bring out the most players for the "full battle" selection of rules – and all in 25mm.

As to DBA we hope to get full 3.0 tournments in both scales going this year.

TomT

The glory days of DBM are defiantly gone no one disagrees with that at all.

As to MM attracting DBM players back it hasn't yet after how many years now, at least 5 I believe?

DBM, FOG or even DBA 2.2+ still have more players than MM at all three cons, Cold Wars, Fall In and Historicon. MM has had I think three tournaments, one I believe didn't happen for want of numbers another had as I mentioned only two rounds the second with only three players in two games and the last I think had one round of games but I may be mistaken.

As to Historicon it hasn't seemed to take off at its currant location for some reason and has nowhere near the numbers it used to have when at Lancaster, don't know why and that's for a different thread I am sure?

I have nothing against MM I just don't like it myself but I do remember coming over and saying hello to someone one time and watching some.

I wish all the rule sets all the luck in the world but I don't think DBA 3 will over take 2.2+ or MM overtake DBM numbers. Now I could be wrong so will have to see what happens in the future.

DBA Variants have more participants now but with DBA 3 being published, and being really a new game, perhaps there will be some people playing in the events I plan to run at Cold Wars and Historicon, Tom's DBA events too.

I played DBM for many and had great fun, as I like the DBX system very much and have since the beginning. However, there were things you could do, with moving stands or groups of stands, that prevented an opponent from contacting you.
It just seemed wrong, which eventually just started to turn people off.

Having now played DBMM for about two years, I can say that this version is absolutely the best ancients rules I have played. I'm talking for a tournament setting, having so many corrections from DBM, as well as the first version of DBMM.

In DBMM, you have things like light horse armies, soundly defeating opponents, which I didn't see in many of the other rules I've played. Armies can have Brilliant and Inert generals, armies can choose Stratagems, where ambushes, flank marches, feigned Flight, as well as many others, add a lot of flavor that I was looking for in a set of rules.

From start to finish, DBMM is such an improvement from older rules systems, but many are reluctant to switch. In a way, I don't blame them, but boy, are they missing a great game!!!

We will be having a presence at Historicon in 2015, hopefully, both in 15mm and 25mm as well.

Lou

I was the GM at Cold Wars 2014 who ran the DBMM 15mm tournament event. We had six players on three tables. We would have had eight players but the GM who was scheduled to run the event was ill, and another had to leave early.

Since Cold Wars, our DBMM group who meets regularly are 10 players strong and we meet once a month to play DBMM. At the NJCON convention held in June 2014 after Cold Wars we had a theme tournament called Chariot Wars in which we had ten players in the DBMM 15mm tournament with biblical armies. So DBMM is growing in the Northeast. We hope to have a larger turnout at this coming Fall-In than at the last Cold Wars.

Kurt.

I tried MM but found it had too much chrome, as many have said, also it seemed to fix many answers where you didn't have a problem to begin with again as many have said.

Having also played for many years I can also played DBM 3.1 is the best ancients rules I have ever played.

With MM armies are stuck with certain stratagems that they used not all of them, from start to finish MM has too many problems, it's not some are reluctant to switch ( as has been bourne out by numbers playing at Lancaster ) it's because some find it not a great game in the least so are boy not missing anything. Also you can find fault in any rule set with regards to opponents fighting you where you didn't want them so to say DBM turned people off is a bit off base. people wanted a change I believe as it had been around for a long time and united more than it turned away. Then came the new fancy MM and FOG both of which hasn't really taken off here and has basically splintered the whole ancients gaming community with no one having large numbers any more.

The Cold Wars MM thing I thought it was only two games may of been three but how many came back in the afternoon not as many as the morning I seem to recall and nothing that night or the next day, not knocking it just asking for clarification?

Again I am not sure MM is growing outside a small area, we in DBM at the Lancaster events have players from as far afield as Canada, UK. , Ohio ,Va. And NY etc. .

Again I really do wish you luck but I have not seen anything to say it is growing with only the odd games on half days and never over two days.
It will be interesting to see 'actual' numbers this weekend without saying that something is great because of X reason.

I personally did not see that many DBM players at Cold Wars on Saturday in the tournament room so I do not know where Anysley is getting his numbers. I witnessed four players tops so it does not seem to be that popular to me. Unless they are playing at odd times. I also notice that the DBM format for this Fall-In is where players have to arrange there own games, and not determined by the GM. Is that because you do not have enough DBM players?

The DBMM tournament is a single day event on a Saturday 9 a.m. to 6 pm so players can also experience the convention. At Cold Wars 2014 we ran two games at 400 AP, four hours each game. We had six players who played two games. Two of the players were from Canada and we hope that they come back in 2015 with some friends

At this years Fall-In, Lou Cardinale is doing a three game format, 240 AP armies, with each game being 2.5 hours. So far, my understanding is that we have eight players committed to gaming on Saturday at Fall-In.

All players are welcome, whether former DBM, or FOG players.

The format we have been using is for the usual three games a day, the flexible times is to allow for people to shop etc. I think the old format of playing your three games a day at what ever those times were didn't allow for much eating, drinking and shopping between games.

So now the times are flexible where most of us play our three games and then you are able to get the odd person whom only wishes to play one or two games total over the weekend, such as our very own Gen. Hansen who is nigh on 80 years old and can't do the tournament format anymore to some who like to play as many games as possible over the two days.

Now this has worked for the last 4 or 5 years, we had 8 25mm players on Friday and 13 15mm players on Saturday last year at Cold Wars so you may have looked over during a quiet time and it was a doubles day so fewer battles but with more players, my numbers come from the results posted online.

Take a quick look at the event listing in the programme for DBM and it will explain the format. As all of the rule sets have splintered off for what ever reason (and FOG going another three directions with ancients, renaissance and napoleonic's ) with no one set having the critical mass needed for big comps like the old days ( and which some people didn't like anyway) we have tried to keep it informal'ish so as to keep the whole thing friendly and inclusive of anyone hence you best 4 scores count over the two days unless we do ( as happened last year) a 25mm one day with a doubles 15mm the next.

May try and come over so I can put faces to names this weekend, I hear we may be crowded at Cold Wars this year as it seems to be more popular than ever with H'con shrinking for what ever reason, as everyone is getting a little shorted on table space.

Drusilla:

In redoing DBA (3.0) we have followed the lead of DBMM and greatly reduced the geometic tricks that have given DBX problems from the beginning. We have, however, been able to do so with far fewer and far less complex rules than DBMM. So players can get much of the benefit of DBMM in DBA 3.0 but with vastly reduced complexity.

For players (like me) that have drifted away from DBM due to its version 3.0, DBA3.0 Big Battle can give you the feel of the great old days of DBM2.0 but with geometric tricks removed (though with limited gradings). (Version DBM3.1 was never authorized by its author Phil Barker.)

That said I would be happy to play in a DBMM tournament and try and get it rolling in the US. It has done well on the international circuit and now seems to be finally getting started in the US. Lots of us have big DBM sized armies sitting around from the old DBM 2.0 days, which need the exercise.

Given the sheer number of former DBM players, both Big Battle DBA 3.0 and DBMM should be able to find a solid player base.

TomT

Ansley, don't get me wrong, I love DBM. In fact, when it came out, I was hooked, as to me, it just gave a great feel to how a battle should develop. Pure and simple. I probably burned out on ancients comps, as well as our group breaking up and having no players for a regular weekly DBM game, so I stopped playing for a number of years.

When FoG came along, i read and liked the rules very much, though, decidedly different from DBM, but many players took to those rules and we had a lot of fun. However, I always felt that something was missing, so gradually, I stopped playing them.

I tried Impetus, then Hail caesar and both were enjoyable, but not exactly what I was looking for.

Two years ago, I read an article about DBMM v.2 and the review was favorable, though, as usual, DBMM, like DBM and all WRG rules, were said to be very difficult to read and understand, but once you did understand them, the rules were said to played very well.

Since reading complex rules in the past never stopped me, I decided to give them a try. After I had read and played them about a dozen games, I realized how good the rules really were. I was stunned at how the battles played out.

To me, DBMM gives the best feel of how a battle should look and play, win or lose. The games play beautifully, from the start of deciding who the attacker is, to the finish of the battle, DBMM does it the best. Now , of course, this is only my opinion, which doesn't really mean anything, as you are obviously as passionate about DBM.

You can say that DBMM has a lot of chrome, and I, to an extent, agree. But since I'm a chrome kind of guy, and love classic cars from the 40's and they have a lot of chrome, those aspects of the rules didn't bother me at all. In fact, to me, give DBMM a lot more character. There is a natural ebb and flow, to the games, which is what attracted me to the rules.

You are also correct, when you say that the big tournaments have splintered, with the introduction of all the newer ancients rules, as I remember when there were 40+ DBM players in tournaments and I do miss those days.

I'm hoping that DBMM has a chance to do that again, as TomT has stated, DBMM is very popular in the UK, and Europe, especially in Italy, where Lorenzo Mele, earlier this year, ran a team tournament, with four players per team and had 20 teams. 80 players playing in a DBMM event, during a full weekend event. DBMM is also very popular in Australia and New Zealand. Hey, you never know?

I really wish I could sit down and play a game of DBMM with you, as you would be very surprised at how well the rules play, particularly when you get to play someone who knows the rules and is able to explain them during the game.

TomT, I hope you are able to attend one of our DBMM events in the near future.

Hope to see you at Fall In!

Lou Cardinale

Do you still have Buttocks of Death?

no buttocks of death