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"DBR or Victory Without Quarter?" Topic

Victory Without Quarter

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01 Jan 2017 11:57 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Victory Without Quarter board

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Comments or corrections?

UnfortunateWound24 Oct 2012 11:59 a.m. PST

Which do you prefer for large-scale ECW battles? I've played a fair bit of DBA and HotT and enjoy them both, but I also love the card-based TFL rules.

If you've played either or both, I'd love to know your favourite things about these two systems.


platypus01au24 Oct 2012 5:30 p.m. PST

With DBR, I like the way the Gallopers end up spread out all over the field after a charge due to the pursuit rules. And very difficult to pull back because of the PIP restrictions.

The pike/shot support rules work well in the ECW period.

Don't know anything about VWQ.


The Wargames Room24 Oct 2012 8:31 p.m. PST

I use DBR for my ECW gaming. There are three aspects of the rules I particularly like.

Firstly, the interaction between the different cavalry types be they harquebusiers, Lobsters, cavaliers or the New Model horse is subtle but excellent. The differences mean the various cavalry work differently on the table.

Secondly, and like "Platypus01au", the interaction between pike and shot works extremely well. You are not forced to use mixed units, but sometimes the support is critical despite using simple mechanics.

Finally, the PIP restrictions result in a more deliberate action unfolding on the table. I feel this helps significantly in modelling the period.

You may find some of my battle reports here of interest.

For non ECW use of the DBR rules change the filter to show all DBR related articles.

Verily25 Oct 2012 12:44 a.m. PST

I've tried VWQ a couple of times, and found the card based system too random. I had units that never got to move the whole game as their card was never drawn, which did not seem right on the tabletop. The rules also seem unclear in parts, and had to agree on interpretations with my opponent.

I'm not a fan of DBR either.

I'm still looking for the right renaissance ruleset…. Best memories were using the Gush rules, which are now outdated unfortunately.

UnfortunateWound25 Oct 2012 2:18 a.m. PST

Wow, nice stuff Wargames Room! I followed you for Volley & Bayonet, but I didn't realise there were so many DBR articles too!

I tried my first game of DBR this morning: link

I know the game technically starts in 1494, but I wanted to give it a try. My initial feelings are at the bottom, but I'd still like to know TMP's reaction to the rules.

@ platypus: It's good to know they interact well. I was hoping to find a ruleset where all the pike & shot in one unit are on one base, but since that search failed I'm looking for a well-known game that's as simple!fun as possible.

EDIT: While being historically accurate.

And a prime benefit of using DBR would be the broader application of the rules.

Bob Runnicles25 Oct 2012 9:20 a.m. PST

>I'm still looking for the right renaissance ruleset…. Best memories were using the Gush rules, which are now outdated unfortunately.

Victor, have you tried Field of Glory: Renaissance or Pike & Shotte from Warlord Games?

monger28 Oct 2012 1:19 p.m. PST

"…Victor, have you tried Field of Glory: Renaissance or Pike & Shotte from Warlord Games?"

I was just going to say!

These rules have a very large fan base, and sound really good. I play FOG Ancients, so I am sure the rules cover the Ren. very well. Check them out

Dexter Ward30 Oct 2012 2:50 a.m. PST

DBR works very well for large battles – but we find it works better if you use Condensed rather than Normal scale; it requires fewer troops and the interactions seem better.

FOG:Renaissance is also a very good set of rules which works well for historical battles.

UnfortunateWound30 Oct 2012 9:25 a.m. PST

I was planning to use condensed scale if I used DBR – how do you represent independent units of less than 400 men?

Dexter Ward01 Nov 2012 2:25 a.m. PST

You either represent them with a single stand if they had a big impact on the battle, or combine them into existing units if they did not.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP01 Nov 2012 10:33 a.m. PST

I have done many DRR civil war games and enjoyed them much. Just a little boring, however, with limited troop types. Much prefer Moguls and other eastern or mid eastern armies.

Prince Lupus10 Nov 2012 2:08 a.m. PST

Ignoring the question – Basic Impetus Baroque are fun and free

Personal logo miniMo Supporting Member of TMP10 Nov 2012 7:43 p.m. PST

There's also DBA-RRR, in the files section of the FADBAG Yahoo Group, the folks who developed it: link

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