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"Italian Wars DBR vs DBMM 2.1" Topic

De Bellis Magistrorum Militum

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01 Jan 2017 11:50 p.m. PST
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Wealdmaster18 Jun 2016 7:35 a.m. PST

I have both these sets and am starting to build Italian Wars armies. I wonder which might be better not having tried it yet and want to know if any who have more experience with DBR might weigh in. I see there are more period specific pike rules and the 2 pip cost to break up formations is nice in DBR, but I'm tempted to give DBMM 2.1 a go also because they have moved the end bracket on relevant years up a bit to encompass this conflict.

Phillius Sponsoring Member of TMP18 Jun 2016 1:15 p.m. PST

Italian Wars has been my preferred period for a long time. I have played it in both DBR and DBM/MM.

DBMM is the better rule set of the two, hands down.

DBR allows shot to move and fire too easily, their combat factor is huge considering what they were. Mounted troops are far too maneuverable, and combined shot and pistols are too tough and can manouver like a well trained dance troop.

Having said that, for later periods, these problems are not so great. But for Italian Wars, DBMM, without a doubt.

Father Grigori19 Jun 2016 3:15 a.m. PST

For early Italian Wars, DBA3 isn't bad. My first trial games were with IW armies, and they seemed to work quite well, without the extra complexity of either DBR or DBMM. You have to jiggle some of the lists a bit – the Spanish need some artillery – but otherwise I think they're ok.

Drusilla199819 Jun 2016 4:38 a.m. PST

I have also played both and DBMM is by far the better rules, particularly for the early 15th century period, versus DBR.


Oldgrumbler19 Jun 2016 7:06 p.m. PST

I have played this era a lot. I strongly recommend that you buy
The Maximilian rule set from Black Hat Miniatures. I t is a DBX style rule set that is written specifically for this era. You will not regret it. I have played it probably 40 times. I have extensive house rules you are welcome to. This is the best DBX style set for this era.


olicana20 Jun 2016 1:45 a.m. PST

I have Maximilian too and it is a good set of rules in this genre.
They are are based on 24 30 elements a side / player so you needn't break the bank collecting figures.

Next year I have to take my Italian Wars collection up to Scotland for a big League of Gentlemen Wargamers bash where we will play the Italian Wars, Kingmaker board game fashion, on a 30 foot table, like this WoR game played a couple of years ago. Because most players will not have played before, I've been asked to keep the rules simple, so i'll be using Maximilian.


BTW, The picture is being taken from the Scotish border. The bit sticking out with all the towers on is North Wales and the nearsest castle is York. The most distant player is stood in the English Channel and the far wall table is France. mid shot are two tables representing Ireland and the north sea east of East Anglia (they were put 'mid room' because the room wasn't wide enough to lay it all out with geographical accuracy the sea areas were needed transport troops on model ships and the possibility of naval battles!

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP20 Jun 2016 10:01 a.m. PST

I have done Fornovo with DBR1 and DBR 2 and DBA Big Battle. The latter is the easiest but DBR 2 gave a very good game too. DBMM is just too complex for me, and the locals.
earlier version with background



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