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"Clash of Empires Ancient Rules" Topic

Clash of Empires

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colin knight11 Mar 2011 5:19 a.m. PST

Just heard of these surprisingly. They seem to be not too distant from WAB but with morale and no super killer generals and with no need to worry about basing. A lot of time and effort seems to have gone into them.
Out in April.

Scutatus11 Mar 2011 5:33 a.m. PST

Yup! I'm on their forum keeping a close eye. It's all looking very very good, with lots of inspired little touches, full of character. Mark and Stuart (aka Great Escape Games) certainly care about what they are doing and from what I can see they are doing it very well indeed.:D

The book has just gone off to the printers and GEG say they should know about, well, nowish really, exactly when in April it will be released.

I have my fingers crossed for Salute.

Sgt Steiner12 Mar 2011 7:23 a.m. PST

April going to be an expensive month with these and Hail Caesar both due………………..

timmy16412 Mar 2011 8:45 a.m. PST

I've got my eye on this set.
It seems like the best for a 'painless' switch from WAB.
It also appears to have some improvements, over WAB?

The bonus for me is the support from the producers.

I've had a very long love affair with WAB (since it came out) but now the old girl is showing her age, and hasn't had any new dresses or make up for years.

Providing CoE supplies the same type of fun game, with the history attached then i'm hooked.

Scutatus12 Mar 2011 5:07 p.m. PST

From what I've read, CoE gives a very noticeable nod to WAB (in the sense it has a WAbesque feel to it) but is also it's own game in it's own right, having taken a different approach in several areas. All for the better from what I've read. And it has simply brilliant support. Honestly, ask a question on their forum and it is answered by either Mark or Stuart in just hours most of the time. Can't fault that.

And they will give us Army lists from the get go. Roman,German, Briton,Caledonian and Dacian lists will be in the rulebook. They intend to have twenty offical lists up on their website in PDF form almost from day one totally free. In addition, TWO Supplements, each with around 24 army lists, are intended for release in just the first year. The first of these will be the "Achaemenid" Supplement, from Early Persia to the death of Alexander the Great, involving all the Greek, Persian and Macedonian lists (amongst others) that suggests.

And if their other game, "Rules of Engagement" is anything to go by, they WILL deliver on these promises.

It all rather puts FW to shame really.

I'm just hoping that the game itself really will be as good as it appears to be at this point.

UK John14 Mar 2011 3:17 p.m. PST

Sounds like an impressive effort all round. Wonder if it will be picked up by the tourney crowd as well?

Won't be able to be played at Warhammer World though.

Stuart at Great Escape Games16 Mar 2011 7:32 a.m. PST

There's an article from a Persian-Greek battle that we recently played: link

JJartist16 Mar 2011 11:44 a.m. PST

Nice report.. not sure about "forming square" for a hoplite phalanx. Armies could form large squares to repel cavalry armies while on the march-- thus Xenophon's elongated square to get to the hills during the anabasis.. but each unit in the square was deployed as a linear phalanx. Another instance of a unit forming square on the battlefield is the arygraspides of Eumenes, who desired to retreat and reach their baggage after defeatign the enemy foot.. this was a very elite unit no doubt with the drill and ability to form such an ad hoc formation.

The idea of flanks forming square to repell cavalry is not really an common ancient ability and diminishes the cavalry flank moves…. in other words those phalanxes should just stand a take it, they should not have such options based on helicopter surveillance intelligence.
If units could readily turn or form square in the face of the enemy, then events at battles such as at Delion or Nemea would not have happened.

Stuart at Great Escape Games16 Mar 2011 3:06 p.m. PST

Like I said in the article, it was unlikely to have succeeded. In game terms it makes you an immobile missile magnet.

Empgamer18 Mar 2011 7:51 a.m. PST

I hope this or something similar to WAB does really well. Personally I'll be waiting before buying into more rule systems so I'm as sure as I can be that:

1) They play well and represent as closely as possible what we think might have happened on the battlefield for the period(s) they portray

2) That army list support is going to be sufficient for the periods I am interested in

3) That there is enough of a player base to get a game.

ATM, Clash seems to be the set that will provide what I'm after subject to 1-3 above.

Bowman18 Mar 2011 2:36 p.m. PST

April going to be an expensive month with these and Hail Caesar both due………………..

Yes……but save some $$ for Rob Broom's War and Conquest which should be due later in the year. I'm looking forward to all three books.

It'll be a pleasant change to deal with a company that is supportive of it's products and responsive to the public.

colin knight18 Mar 2011 3:44 p.m. PST

It is going to be a good year. 3 rule sets from 3 groups of great people. Win,win. All seem to offer something fresh, something different, and many good things.
I see HC, WAC and COE being part of family that can be visited.
For me its COE but I am free without offense to visit the rest of the "family".

brevior est vita19 Mar 2011 11:21 a.m. PST

Well said, colin knight. thumbs up

colin knight22 Mar 2011 2:39 a.m. PST

Just pre ordered my copy and very excited. Hope they are good!!!

colin knight23 Mar 2011 3:50 p.m. PST

I should be painting the rest of my Hittite army but have been at it all week in the garden. They did really well in last WAB battle and I hope for a similar crushing victory with COE. I took on Egyptians.
Using warbands sounds interesting with COE also. I like the idea of command element/base as it appeals to the diorama loving part of me.

Personal logo oldbob Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2011 4:10 p.m. PST

colin; please let us know what you think of them, once you get a chance to check them out!

TKindred Supporting Member of TMP23 Mar 2011 9:46 p.m. PST

I'm passing on buying any more new rules sets other than Impetus this year. I just can't afford them, what with a dearth of work and increased prices and all that.

Mostly I'm concentrating on painting what I have waiting on the shelves and buying only those things I actually need to finish up units/armies, etc.

I'd like to get all three, but right now they are luxury items.

AlanYork24 Mar 2011 5:58 a.m. PST

I hope this or something similar to WAB does really well. Personally I'll be waiting before buying into more rule systems so I'm as sure as I can be that:

1) They play well and represent as closely as possible what we think might have happened on the battlefield for the period(s) they portray

2) That army list support is going to be sufficient for the periods I am interested in

3) That there is enough of a player base to get a game.

ATM, Clash seems to be the set that will provide what I'm after subject to 1-3 above.

Good point about the player base. I've seen a lot of good looking rules come and go because they never sustained the interest and it was simply impossible to get a game with them. You need a decent sized player base I agree.

Of late Impetus seems to have achieved this and is now a viable alternative to the major player Field of Glory. It'll be interesting to see which, if any, of these three newcomers manage to achieve the critical mass required.

I'm hapy with Impetus but good luck to all three of the new sets.

Monk de Wally de Honk24 Mar 2011 8:45 a.m. PST

CoE look really good – what a pity all my Ancients are Impetus based!

Stuart at Great Escape Games24 Mar 2011 10:59 a.m. PST

Won't matter at all, Monk.

Oldenbarnevelt24 Mar 2011 12:39 p.m. PST

I read this on their site:

"The turn sequence is: Orders Phase, Movement Phase, Shooting Phase, Hand-to-hand Phase and Combat Outcomes Phase."

Does this mean the turn is simultaneous?

Oldenbarnevelt24 Mar 2011 4:30 p.m. PST

Never mind, it's IGOUGO. frown

colin knight28 Mar 2011 5:31 a.m. PST

Chariot era Hittite and Egyptians now up on COE site. Kadesh anyone??

richinq29 Mar 2011 3:21 a.m. PST

I am very intrested in these rules will have a look at them at salute.

The two army list I am waiting for are:
Late Imperial Romans
Sassinid Persian


Stuart at Great Escape Games29 Mar 2011 1:09 p.m. PST

Those two lists will be up by the release of CoE.

richinq30 Mar 2011 4:15 a.m. PST


looking forward to them and looking at the rules at salute.


colin knight31 Mar 2011 2:07 a.m. PST

Chariots seem to work well in units of 6. This is good to know as I ponder my Hittite list. Lots of choice to chase my friends Egyptians off the battlefield and crush them into the dust!!
I am really amazed at the attention these rules are gathering and cannot wait to try them out.

richinq04 Apr 2011 3:06 a.m. PST


What figure scale do the rules use.

Many Thanks


Stuart at Great Escape Games04 Apr 2011 3:43 a.m. PST

Rich, we play in 28mm, 20mm and 15mm. 28mm is by far the most popular amongst the playtesting groups.

richinq04 Apr 2011 3:56 a.m. PST


I play 6mm using 28mm basing with 8 6mm figures on a base.
each base = 1 28mm figure for casulaties and also use 28mm ranges/movement.

what I should have asked was how many men does each figure represent eg 1 figure = 20 men.

Many Thanks


pcelella04 Apr 2011 5:03 a.m. PST

These rules look very interesting and a nice potential substitute for WAB refugees. I usually play FoG though, with a bit of Warrior once in awhile, so my armies are mainly based to the WRG standard. Will these rules accommodate that basing easily. I mean can I have an army based that way, and still play (without major disadvantages) against an opponent based to what was the WAB standard? And would it be conceivable to show up at a competition with an army based according to the WRG standard? I still want to be able to use my armies for the other rules I play (FoG, Warrior, Impetus, etc.) even though I would like to give Clash of Empires a try.

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog

Stuart at Great Escape Games04 Apr 2011 6:59 a.m. PST

Rich, there are no fixed scales but I give an example of 1 fig = 20 men in the rule book.

Peter, the answer is a most definite yes.

Monk de Wally de Honk05 Apr 2011 2:20 a.m. PST

Stuart at GEG
Will the rulebook contain Early Persian lists to take on my Hoplites?

Stuart at Great Escape Games05 Apr 2011 4:10 a.m. PST


The first army list book, due out late summer, covers Early Achaemenid Persia to the death of Alexander. There will soon be Persian lists on our website.

Monk de Wally de Honk05 Apr 2011 4:45 a.m. PST

Thanks Stuart. Am I right in assuming there won't be much, if any difference, between the published lists and the website lists.

Stuart at Great Escape Games05 Apr 2011 7:04 a.m. PST

You will get a good idea of what a published, in print list looks like when you see the CoE rule book. The print ones are more fleshed out. An example is the Later Hoplite Greek one. The army list book will contain options to turn this one into an Argive, Ionian, and a couple of other ones. There will also be separate Athenian and Theban ones.

In the Republican Roman list, the book version will expand on armies for Spanish, African and Macedonian theatres, for example.

The web ones are playtested and have some depth to them, but expect a bit more from the book lists.

Personal logo oldbob Supporting Member of TMP05 Apr 2011 8:55 a.m. PST

Alright Colin and Stuart, you guys have gotten me so curious that I'm per-ordering the darn book today.

Stuart at Great Escape Games05 Apr 2011 4:19 p.m. PST

Thanks Bob (and Colin)!

Mick in Switzerland06 Apr 2011 4:20 a.m. PST

This sounds like a good successor to WAB. After reading through the website, I have already ordered it.

Are there any plans to do "Armies of Chivalry"? (I hope so)

I have just painted some Perry Mercenaries & WOTR Infantry as Burgundians and next will be some Perry Swiss Pike. I am basing these on multiple bases but with 20 x 20 mm per figure.


Stuart at Great Escape Games06 Apr 2011 5:14 a.m. PST

There are plans to do a book dedicated to the European Medieval period. I will also have a WotR list up soon that covers Lancaster and York. With a tweak, or an aextra list, it'll cover the oter factions.

I've just put together a box of those Perry figures…
They need to get onto some cavalry…

Mick in Switzerland06 Apr 2011 5:56 a.m. PST

Dear Stuart,
Thanks for the update.

richinq06 Apr 2011 7:48 a.m. PST


I keep looking at Gripping Beast Timurids range.
will there be an army list for then available before Salute.

Many Thanks


Ban Chao06 Apr 2011 2:29 p.m. PST

I really like the look of Clash of Empires and i hope they do a better job on Chinese armies than most popular rules do.

Stuart at Great Escape Games06 Apr 2011 3:36 p.m. PST

Rich, Timurid list will not be far off but will be after Salute.

I would like to do comprehensive Chinese lists and welcome anyone who would like to contribute. I have a very basic Warring States list but Ancient China deserves a fair amount of attention.

Mick in Switzerland28 Apr 2011 6:54 a.m. PST

Book arrived today – it looks great.

UK John28 Apr 2011 3:55 p.m. PST


What was the problem with the job done by Empire of Dragons, Chris Peers's Warring States and The Art of War?

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