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"Vapnartak Armati Doubles Cup - 3rd/4th Feb 2007 - CANCELLED" Topic


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Paulisper07 Jan 2007 8:37 a.m. PST

Hi all

Just to let you know that the Doubles tournament has had to be cancelled, due to the barriers placed in our way by the Vapnartak organising committee.

Initially David Dickinson had worked to secure us a slot on the Saturday evening, but the committee decided to rescind his decision, feeling that the traders would not be happy with our presence whilst setting up. David and I pointed out to them that this was not an issue at other tournaments (eg. Derby and Britcon), but they would not budge from this position. They were happy for us to game again in one day, as last year, but due to the short window of time we would be able to play within, I didn't feel this was feasible.

Sorry to those planning on comng over to York and, unfortunately, it's not the best start to 2007 for Armati…..


Stevenmack6507 Jan 2007 11:16 a.m. PST

give little men power and see what happens?

Unrepentant Werewolf 207 Jan 2007 1:13 p.m. PST

The main reason was because the Council licence for holding a show is for 1 day only, also the racecourse open for a few hours to let traders set up (as they do for other shows) to let a competition happen would have doubled the cost of the venue rental.

p.s. The decision was not rescinded, it was no from the beginning, perhaps your friend should have told you that…

Warcry – perhaps you should find out both sides before insulting people I know!

ttauri07 Jan 2007 2:54 p.m. PST

So they said you could play the same times as last year but you didn't feel that was acceptable? So now you're blaming them for you cancelling the tournament?

Glad I don't play Armati.

mattspooner07 Jan 2007 3:34 p.m. PST

Competition gamers should all be shot anyway, shame this appears to be a missed opportunity to get several in the same place at the same time and save some ammo!

Paulisper08 Jan 2007 11:10 a.m. PST

Unrepentant Werewolf – The decision was not 'no' from the beginning – David Dickinson and I had liaised from October onwards on this (as I believed he was the main tournament organiser, taking over from Mike – see Vappa website…) and it was only several weeks after our first discussions had taken place that the initial positive view on this going ahead on the Saturday was changed.

It would have been nice to have received a fuller explanation from the committee as to the reasons behind the final no-go decision, instead of a blunt 'no you can't' email, which only left me to summise, from my final discussion with David, as to the perceived reasons for the block on Saturday gaming.

ttauri – The times we had the previous year (in our inaugural running of the event) were not sufficient to allow 3 full games to be played in a day, hence my negotiations with David about using the Saturday evening time. I'm not blaming them for cancelling the tournament at all, just explaining the decision behind the cancellation. The plug was pulled by only one person – me. BTW, You should come and play Armati sometime, as you'd find us a nice bunch….

Mattspooner – interesting take on competition gamers!


Unrepentant Werewolf09 Jan 2007 1:45 a.m. PST

Yes it was no from the beginning but David did not feel like telling his friends that, he also knew the reasons and didn't think it necessary to tell you those either!

Nik Gaukroger09 Jan 2007 2:38 a.m. PST


Couldn't you just run a 2 game competition?

Presumably that would fit into the time allowed – certainly the Northern Doubles League DBM boys play 2 games on the day and DBM usually takes longer than Armati, or so the Armati players tell me.

Or was 3 a magic number for some reason?

Paulisper09 Jan 2007 6:40 a.m. PST


David gave me reasons, but they were different to the ones you've stated here.


Armati has become longer as a game, as the standards of play have risen in the league, and the tourney players now realise that. At our yearly meeting in Glasgow time keeping and game length was the BIG issue and most games are now taking upto 3hrs, if not more. A 2 game comp would probably not bring the punters in from the far flung reaches of the country and, as many of the players are Scottish or Southern based, I needed a 3 game incentive to pull them in.

Nik Gaukroger09 Jan 2007 7:08 a.m. PST


Fair point – it explains why you wanted 3 games.

The game length issue has also affected DBM over the years. Initially games were quite quick at about 2.5 hours but as the years rolled by they got longer for the reason you mention above and now 3 to 3.5 is the usual, and some comps have introduced rules about the minimum number of bounds that should be played as well.

RedAce18 Sep 2007 3:33 p.m. PST

To Paulisper.
I only just saw this thread. Let me make some points clear.
Firstly, David Dickinson was NOT, repeat NOT the principal organiser of Vapnartak – whatever he might have said!
Vapnartak has always been organised by the committee of York Wargames Society. After the sad demise of principal organiser, Mike Brooks, the task of organsingthe show was shared. As Unrepentant Werewolf quite clearly explained, there wer perfectly good reasonswhy the competition could not start on Saturday. For those like yourself who seem to have problems with the English language, THIS IS A ONE DAY SHOW! The license was for one day! We had hired the venue for one day! That day was Sunday 4th! This was always the case. If Dave Dickinson told you anything else, then he was acting alone, and he was wrong. The York racecourse had another event on on that Saturday. They let us have a couple of hours to set some things up on the night, but that is it. It might surprise you to know that the organisers have a life, families etc. They are already giving up their time to organise the show and run it on the day and the point of it is that the public get to see it.
Noone would have been seeing it on Saturday, even if we could have let the competition run then. I'm sure you are a nice bunch, as you say, and you may have been led astray by Dave Dickinson, but your attitude to this has been arrogant, selfish and unreasonable.

RedAce19 Sep 2007 9:38 a.m. PST

With regard to:

It would have been nice to have received a fuller explanation from the committee as to the reasons behind the final no-go decision, instead of a blunt 'no you can't' email, which only left me to summise, from my final discussion with David, as to the perceived reasons for the block on Saturday gaming.

Am I reading this right? Were you really saying you needed an explanation why you could not run a two-day competition at a one-day show?

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