| Editor in Chief Bill ||16 Mar 2012 5:40 p.m. PST|
How would you rate second-edition Armati, on a scale of 1 (terrible) to 10 (magnificent)?
| D6 Junkie ||16 Mar 2012 6:24 p.m. PST|
9 excellent game!
About the only game that I ever enjoyed
playing in a tournament.
Nice clean rules
|Yesthatphil||16 Mar 2012 7:26 p.m. PST|
7 or 6
Very good but needs some updating which it doesn't get.
Has some great ideas in it nevertheless.
|kyoteblue||16 Mar 2012 9:57 p.m. PST|
3 once you learn the tricks for deployment..
| Shaun Travers ||16 Mar 2012 10:10 p.m. PST|
It is a tight set of rules that I really love to play and gives me what I am looking for from an ancient game. It does not have everything I would like to see visible, as some things like morale is hidden in the mechanisms.
Note that I am racking my brains, but cannot think of another ancients ruleset I would give higher than an 8, although there are others that get 7s or 8s. There is no ruleset (yet!) that does everything for me and would get a 10.
|yoakley||17 Mar 2012 12:53 a.m. PST|
8 if you have horse-strong armies.
3 if it all infantry.
|Khusrau||17 Mar 2012 2:43 a.m. PST|
I like them as a simulation. As a game, they are not so good. so 10 and 0. Average of 5. I just always thought that the game was decided at deployment, and you may as well just play deployments and have 7 games in night.
But that could just be me
|Yesthatphil||17 Mar 2012 3:01 a.m. PST|
As a game, they have a solid following
Ancients on the Move so they must rate higher than 0! Or the Armati League players must be a bit dim.
Re the deployment issue
like many games, there are safe deployments and vulnerable deployments. It doesn't take much thought to avoid the latter, and complete newbies are a regular part of events and do better, generally, in their first tournaments than is often the case if playing the more 'popular' games.
That said, the faults in the game could be fixed, but the game has been abandoned by the author and is therefore going nowhere (which is a pity)
There is a support site at Warfloot
|balticbattles||17 Mar 2012 3:12 a.m. PST|
My first ancients game that I really got into. Lots to like about it – keeping battle lines, well written and easy to pick up.
I've moved on to Impetus as I feel it is a logical progression of Armati, adding more variability. Armati itself is still a good game, but I feel has been overtaken by several more recent games which have taken ideas from it and others and combined them for a better overall product.
|Mr Elmo||17 Mar 2012 6:26 a.m. PST|
I'd say 4. Higher if you only are interested in moving forward
|Don Manser||17 Mar 2012 7:42 a.m. PST|
7-10 depending on the matchup
|Toy Soldier Green||17 Mar 2012 10:12 a.m. PST|
|brucka||17 Mar 2012 10:17 a.m. PST|
Switched from Armati to Impetus – just seemed the logical progression. So cannot rate as just hindsight now and would be comparing to Impetus. Maybe a 7?
|Keraunos||18 Mar 2012 1:06 a.m. PST|
but in need of a new version.
its a game which rewards thinking about what you are doing before you do it, rather than relying on some super unit to save you mid way through
and one of the few tournament games where the players don't usually bother to bring the rules with them.
|Gennorm||18 Mar 2012 4:01 a.m. PST|
Not played it much and in a long time. The thing I liked most was that skirmishers were just a nuisance and were removed on contact with battle troops. It got away from the hours of messing about with light infantry that characterised so many games with WRG sets. I suggested it for inclusion in DBR 2.0 but unfortunately it never happened.
|Midpoint||18 Mar 2012 6:17 a.m. PST|
4. Impetus is a much better game all round. I like Armati a lot less than I used to.
Armati is a fairly simple game though and easy to teach and learn.
|Who asked this joker||18 Mar 2012 9:50 a.m. PST|
Impetus is a much better game all round.
Armati 2 is written more clearly than Impetus. It is also better thought out than Impetus. Less fiddly. I've played Impetus and not Armati though. Impetus was pretty fun though I actually liked Basic Impetus better.
From a judgment from just reading the rules, I'd give it a 7. Probably will change when I play it.
|Midpoint||18 Mar 2012 10:07 a.m. PST|
I agree the language in Armati is clearer – a function of Impetus not being from a native speaker. Perhaps we can agree that Armati is simpler rather than calling it less fiddly? Whether or not that is a virtue depends on the gamer.
What do I think Impetus does better?
The list includes:
Missile fire is broken in Armati.
Game-winning units aren't often part of a battleline but are usually individually deployed to slalom into position on a flank.
Deployment in multiple lines is a waste of time in Armati.
Opposed single D6 rolls in Armati limit results to being linear.
The game I most closely associate with Armati is DBA. Both in terms of strengths and weaknesses.
|waaslandwarrior||18 Mar 2012 11:20 a.m. PST|
We used to play this a lot, and we still play a game now and then. Which means we still like it!
I would rate it 8.
I might have to try Impetus, after reading the comments here.
| Bobgnar ||18 Mar 2012 12:06 p.m. PST|
|Don Manser||18 Mar 2012 1:22 p.m. PST|
>>>Impetus is a much better game all round.
So that explains why it's so expensive.
|Who asked this joker||18 Mar 2012 3:47 p.m. PST|
Ow. Bob was an East German Olympic Judge in a former life.
|Marcus Brutus||18 Mar 2012 9:29 p.m. PST|
I'd rate Armati a 7. Armati is near the top of best written set of wargame rules out there. There is rarely a circumstance in the game that hasn't be discussed in the rules. The whole game has been carefully thought out. With that beings said, the system as a whole is far less satisfying than Impetus (the two play similarly to each other.) Where Impetus encourages certain kinds of play Armati requires it (in a very rigid manner.) Armati has been supplanted in my opinion by Impetus.
|1815Guy||19 Mar 2012 6:57 a.m. PST|
Armati is probably the best set of rules from the Arty Conliffe stable. Inexpensive and an OK game. Like many of the Conliffe rules morale is rather simple and weak, terrain irrelevant. It's a fairly pre-programmed game. The army lists are very reminiscent of WRG.
As posted above, Impetus is superior in every way, and thats where Im putting my own dosh, even though I have Armati on the shelves here.
5.5 out of 10
|Keraunos||19 Mar 2012 8:25 a.m. PST|
I have to say, i find Armati closer to FoG than to Impetus.
I struggle to understand why folk compare Armati with Impetus.
|1815Guy||19 Mar 2012 2:00 p.m. PST|
Not comparing with Impetus per se. Just saying that there are much better rules out there, and Impetus must be one of the best
How about "Armati is better than Polemos, not as good as Impetus"?
|Yesthatphil||19 Mar 2012 4:29 p.m. PST|
I struggle to understand why folk compare Armati with Impetus.
Because any excuse will do. For Ancients, Impetus is the dissident's favourite these days (as Armati once was). Armati has, of course, proved duarable. Only time will tell with Impetus (dissident's can be fickle at times).
Armati is probably the best set of rules from the Arty Conliffe stable.
FWIW I quite like Crossfire another Arty Conliffe 'dissident favourite'.
|Marcus Brutus||19 Mar 2012 6:01 p.m. PST|
I don't see the similarities of Armati with FoG at all. The smilarities between Armati and Impetus are many fold. For one, thing, the unit sizes are identical. The sense of commands and how they are organized is similar. The way initiative is rolled for. Single combined melee value. The importance of commands and how they move. No morale tests.
Hey, I like the idea that I'm playing the dissident favourite! Thanks for the compliment. Actually, it is refreshing to see Impetus adding converts without all the hype attached to other sets.
|HarryHotspurEsq||19 Mar 2012 8:29 p.m. PST|
I used to love Armati
haven't played in years as it fell out of favour in my clu, but I'm a fan. 7.5/10
|Yesthatphil||20 Mar 2012 5:07 a.m. PST|
Hey, I like the idea that I'm playing the dissident favourite! Thanks for the compliment.
It was intended as such. Some players will always want to go with the crowd, others will generally want to look for something different. For quite a while, Armati _was that 'something different', these days I think Impetus appeals to the same instinct.
|mbsparta||20 Mar 2012 5:57 a.m. PST|
Armati was an 8 until a very good Armati player showed me all the geometric tricks that turned the game into a 1. I have never played since.
|Clays Russians||21 Mar 2012 4:35 a.m. PST|
i used to play it too. Then I started playing command and colors, no its not the same kind of game and I would be pretentious to say so blah blah blah, but I so much enjoy C&C ancients that it "fired" Armati. I would still play it but time is limited. gotta dig those little blocks, great mojo. When I occassionally play at the local coffee shop, I get a lot of "hey, whats that?" & "oh that is so cool."
|Keraunos||21 Mar 2012 8:52 a.m. PST|
that is a pretty cool coffee shop you have there, clay
|Lewisgunner||21 Mar 2012 1:03 p.m. PST|
9 out of 10. Its a game that really works well and has lots of nuance so as you play more you get to enjoy it more.
|Yesthatphil||21 Mar 2012 4:57 p.m. PST|
Mike B has a point, though (it's better as a naiive game than when reduced to a fine art)
|Lewisgunner||22 Mar 2012 4:52 p.m. PST|
The trickier geometry is much reduced if you play with larger armies (100pts rather than 75pts.)
The biggest problems are single division cavalry units that are highly manoeuvreable. In larger armies it is more likely that cavalry will be in divisions of two or more units which manoeuvre much more slowly and thus cannot easily be used in rapid flanking movements.
What experienced players do is defend the flanks of their divisions and amazingly that is just what ancient generals did. All too often wargamers deploy with gaps in their armies or unprotected flanks and are surprised when an opponent exploits this. All too often a player will deploy a weak cavalry force on a flank and be surprised when an opponent beats that force and turns the flank. If you are weaker in cavalry then it behoves you to be very careful and keep the flank guard in being rather than commit it bewfore your main line has done the business.
Let's also remember that Armati is designed to have a game completed from set-up to resolution in two and a half to three hours. Relatively few other sets enable this.
|chriscoz||14 Aug 2012 9:43 a.m. PST|
Rules are clear. Love hidden deployment. Point system is pretty well balanced.