"Impetus 2nd Edition" Topic

I hear that Impetus 2nd edition is due out soon. I read Basic Impetus and quite liked it. Not played it yet though.

So what are you hoping for in the 2nd edition?

Trimmed down missile table?

Separate values for ranged and close combat?

Hello Mark

Basic Impetus2 is supposed to be next up, however full Impetus may see a second edition late this year from my understanding. I'm keenly looking forward to both 2nd editions.

Christopher

The Missile Table as it currently exists is critical to the game system so I'd be surprised to see any modifications here. The differences in the ratings are subtle but important. It really isn't very complicated once one gets used to it.

So it's a 'Basic' Impetus 2nd edition that's out next. Sorry I thought it was the full Impetus 2nd edition.

I just read Basic and it's interesting.

Coming from 30+ years of roleplaying with numerous weapons and weapon tables, I have to say the missile table didn't really look that bad to me.

I have to say the missile table didn't really look that bad to me.

When you consider that most melee troop types are based on ability and not weapons, the missile table with all of its detail seems to be a bit of an oddity to me.

@ Who asked this joker – I've only read BI once, so I never realised melee and missile had a different format. It doesn't seem like an issue to me though, but that said, I've not actually played a game yet.

I can understand joker why the missile table with all its detail may seem and oddity. But once you play the game you begin to realize why their is this variety. For instance there are three composite bow ratings, A,B,C. A represents foot troops armed with composite bow. B represents mounted units whose primary weapon is the bow. C represents shock cavalry who use bow as a secondary weapon. If you go down the list each rating has a specific purpose. The ratings differences may seem subtle but they really do impact on how one uses different troop types.

I am well aware of what the author was trying to do. Bow, Longbow, Crossbow, Sling, Throwing weapons and artillery. That's really all the detail you need. The rest of the nitty gritty details is just variations on a theme. It adds very little to the game.

@Mark68, it's not really an issue either way. I just think it goes too far.

To be honest you could go through the lists and troop types and insert the appropriate missile factor(s) into the stat line but I strongly suspect it was a lot easier to tweak and amend the different numbers as a table than a myriad of separate unit entries.

It's a quirk, and does stand out at first (mostly because its just about the only table) but in practice the effect would be the same.

Melee combat is intrinsically linked to defence, stamina and grit, I'm not convinced the individual weapons make much difference to those numbers. There are however a number of additional rules that generally apply to melee weapons not missile – long spears cancelling mounted impetus, etc. So it's not like there isn't any melee weapon distinction, it just gets addressed differently.

Having played 300+ games of Impetus let me assure you joker that the missile fire ratings are an integral part of the system. The difference between Short Bow A and Longbow B at Long Range, for instance, is only one die against infantry but it totally effects how one uses these two ranged weapons in play. And that is the critical point. If the chart didn't make an practical difference in the game it wouldn't be worth the effort but, in fact, it does.

played 300+ games of Impetus

I am glad you enjoy the game so much. If it seems integral to the game to you, that's fine. Horses for courses.

The "complicated" missile breakdown catches loads of people out. It's purpose is to stop troops who are effective in close combat from being the best with their ranged weapons too….and allows troops that are relatively poor at close quarters to be effective at range.
….all this rather than giving each troop type 2 different combat values like most rules do.

Have to agree with Marcus Brutus and bobm1959… the fire modifying table is an important part of the rules it's also what makes this element of the game work so effectively. Needs to be seen in conjunction with the rest of Impetus though to get a real handle on the subtlety of what's going here.

Having played ancients since 5th edit WRG I'm not a huge fan of tables either …so I do hear you Joker … probably would agree with you normally :-)

Joker, the missile fire table isn't integral to me. It is integral to Impetus. That is why the author went to such length.

I was a big fan of Impetus, until I played a game, where barbarians, (Gauls), were allowed to have a second rank unit behind the fighting unit, as support. All losses came off the 2nd rank unit, so in essence, giving the front unit a huge amount of staying power. Conversely, a Roman legion was not allowed any rear support, so as soon as a single hit is made against the Roman unit, it lost all it's punch. What started happening was that the Gauls, whose combined cost for two units, were less then the Legionary unit, were in fact more resilient then the Legion.

That's when I realized that something is wrong, with either the way I was interpreting the rules, or with the rules themselves!

Lou

Your talking about 'Large Units' Drusilla (units with a second rank) …and there's many troop types in various armies that can form up in depth like that not just Gallic warbands. Actually a few Roman armies have that option as well.

I think the Legion v Warband… or the Legion v Phalanx which is also a very good test for a set of rules is about right in Impetus. Like other good rule sets the more you play them the more they open up. ( getting a little off topic… sorry )

It may not be clear on the English language official site, so:

Basic Impetus 2 won't be free of charge anymore. There will be a paper version and a download version. The latter will cost 3 euro. It will be better supported by the author(s).

BI2 will have 200 army lists, all updated.

(from the Italian language site)

Hey Lou, I think you played in one of my Impetus games at Cold Wars (or was it Fall In?)

In any event, we find that Gauls vs Rome is about a 50/50 result. What you describe is true but on the other hand, the Romans can rip through the warbands when things go their way. Also, with the new Advanced Impetus changes I think Roman legions have been strengthened overall in dealing with warbands. But it is almost always a close game.

With that said, I think Impetus does struggle to properly represent Roman legions. We find that the Roman lists (Republic and Early Empire) tend to be on the weaker side. I think most rules sets have a difficult time getting Roman armies right. Oddly enough, I think in Impetus that the Roman/Gaul matchup is pretty balanced.

I've got a 6'x4' gaming table and I'm gearing up to play Basic Impetus. I would like to use Basic Impetus to field large armies of troops.

The rules on page 1 (of the free pdf) recommend using half the measurements of the 28mm base dimensions. This will give you a frontage of 6cm (with various dimensions for depth).

As said though, I'd like to field big armies to fit more troops on the table, and I can do this relatively easily because I'm going to use cut out pieces of card with the relevant info printed on them.

To that end, would it break anything if I halved the 15mm recommended dimensions instead of halving the 28mm dimensions? That would give me:

Frontage
4cm frontage (I believe 4cm is line with DBx frontage too) instead of 6cm

Depth
Wagenburg 4cm to 6cm
Cavalry 3cm
Heavy Infantry 2cm
Light Infantry and Missile Troops 2cm
Skirmishers 1.5cm
Chariots, Artillery and Elephants 3cm

I don't really use the depth measurements for my troops. If you read the rules, and especially the info on the website, they note that only the frontage is mandatory. Te depth is flexible to allow for various factors like figure size,dynamic posing,etc.

I base all my infantry on 120mm by 60mm, and cavalry on 120mm by 80mm. It looks good and I haven't run intoany issues with it.

If you want really large battles, there are 2 options that come to mind. 1.) play with multiple armies where each player has a BI army. divide the board into left, center, and right wings. Each player gets command in one wing.

2.) Use 15mm troops on 28mm bases. You will have very large units that are visually quite impressive.

Lastly, consider using full Impetus lists and the higher point values but with the BI rules. If you want to, I'm sure you can make it work

@TKindred

Thanks for the tips.

Couldn't I just use your measurements (as an example), halve them, so I have 60mm by 30mm infantry and 60mm by 40mm cavalry and then double the number of bases per army?

That way, everything stays the same apart from there'll be smaller bases but more of them.

Would that work?

Sure. I'd make some blank bases with labels to ID what each is and try it out before mounting miniatures.

V/R

Thanks again for the tip TKindred

just quick note from the author :-)

1) Firing Table. There are several "weapons" here, but your troops will have (if allowed to fire) only one.
Composite Bow A or B are the same weapon, but insted of giving you odd modifiers I just tell you to crossindex according to the weapon listed to that troops. This simply save you to add modifiers beacuse of the qualitity of your shooter

2) Legions VS Warband. Actually it is really balanced. Sometimes someone blame the rules to be pro warbands, sometimes someone else blames the rules to be too pro Romans. So far so good ;-)

3) Late Republican Romans and Early Imperial Romans are armies that in most rules are not very performative. Well the reason is that they are armies with no many options and with no many strong cavalry, something that in competitions count. Later Imperial armies on the contrary then to have more options and cavalry.
The fact is that in a real battle they didn't fight with armies of the same points, war was made not only of field battles etc

Perhaps someone can help me out here (Basic Impetus).

I'm not sure how to read this entry for "Wallace and Bruce Scots" (page 30 Vol 19 Feudal Europe):

Nr-------Type-------M-------VBU-------I-------VD-------Notes
FP(*)-----5---------6---------2---------3-----Nobles

It's as if the values don't line up correctly, like they should be shifted one step to the right. I guess I'm only missing the number (Nr) of troop type

Correct. Just shift everything on the bottom row one column to the right.

Yep, but then what comes under Nr? How many of that type would I get?

Yup.