"Basic Impetus question" Topic

I've just been looking over BI, the ranged fire resolution is giving me pause

Once the firing Unit has chosen the target (see 6.3.3, Firing Priority), it then rolls as many d6 as it has VBU plus, or minus, the number of dice indicated on the Firing table and modifiers shown in 6.1.3. In the Firing table the number to use varies depending on the weapon and the distance to the target. Use the number on the left if you are firing at Infantry, and the one on the right if you are firing at Mounted troops.

OK, I understand that. A unit with a VBU of 4 rolls 4 D6. However, if the unit is shooting at infantry with Comp Bow B over 10U range there is a -4 modifier. Which means they throw 0 dice, taking the other negative modifiers for disorder/moved/cover this can move the number of dice thrown into minus numbers. As it's impossible to roll, say, -3 dice I'm assuming that the unit cannot shoot?

I haven't played BI, yet, but it seems as though missile fire is going to be largely ineffective. Is this so?

In BI shooting is kinda lame. In Impetus it comes into it's own. Mongols are crazy nasty in Impetus.

Hmmm, melee specifically has a minimum of 1d6 but that is not mentioned for missile fire… I would 'guess' that a 1d6 minimum also applies to missile fire.

Edit – looks I'm wrong on that; rule 6.3.3

"…These priorities must be respected even if you cannot
perform effective fire against the targeted Unit, i.e.
you can fire at the target but after modifiers you
can't roll any dice…"

The min dice rolled is 1d6, for melee and ranged combat

I wasn't aware of minimum dice for missile fire from close reading, although it does clearly state units in melee get a minimum 1d6 (section 7.6).

Shooting is often lame, especially at long range or when moving, but occasionally *very* effective when the target blows the cohesion roll. I lost Alexander at Hydaspes that way. On balance I think it works.

BTW Connard Sage, I thought the exact same as you until I played it a few times.

Thanks for your replies everyone

The min dice rolled is 1d6, for melee and ranged combat

From what others have said, and my own understanding of the rules, that is not the case. Perhaps the designer could give a definitive answer if he reads this?

I seem to recall one die always for melee but not for missile fire. I find missle fire pretty effective in BI anyway. Horse archers are tough.

We've stopped playing because the dicey aspect of the cohesion test drives some of our members crazy.

You are right vtsaogames. If the modifiers negate your dice for firing, then you can't fire. It sounds frustrating, especially with skirmishers, but it seems to work. In the rules skirmishers are meant to screen and not necessarily to cause casualties. They allow you to get your more powerful units up close without losing their impetus.

I confirm 1 die at least for melee and none for fire if modifiers bring you to 0 or less.

In BI fire is pretty effective, you can destroy a Unit with shooting!! In Impetus you have longer ranges but there is a modifier in the coeshion test (according to distance) and troops can perform more movement phases so reducing the possibility to fire by shooter.

As for dice, both Impetus and Basic Impetus are intended for fast and dynamic games. A wrong coehsion test could be deadly for a Unit and players sometimes can feel "betrayed" by their best troops feeling they are loosing control over the army. Well true generals didn't feel better when the battle started ;-)

And thank you losart for clearing that up.

Handy that the units equal 4 DBx bases too :)

Yes, thank you for clearing that up. We have been playing with 1d6 as the minimum for ranged combat. Looks like we need to refresh ourselves with the rules.