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"Germany & Japan Against Russia?" Topic


13 Posts

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Comments or corrections?

warwell22 Jun 2017 2:17 a.m. PST

Ganging up on Russia works in Axis and Allies. ;)

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 4:04 a.m. PST

If Japan had been able to attack the USSR as Barbarossa was under way then it might have been enough to tip the balance. The logistical problems involved in attacking while your supply lines run through a hostile and war-torn country may well have been too difficult for Japan. A narrow front supported from the sea using the railways may have worked for a while but wasn't feasible in the longer term.

If the Soviets were not quite so distracted their superiority in armour would have made Japanese success virtually impossible.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 6:22 a.m. PST

Unquestionably better – but then again that would have required them to act like actual allies

For example, during the Battle of Britain might it not have been useful for the Luftwaffe to have escort fighters with a flight endurance of 6 hours (Zero) versus 90 minutes (Me-109)

Also if the plan was for an attack from both sides perhaps Germany could supplied the Japanese with some of their excellent anti-tank guns and some instructors on armoured tactics?

zoneofcontrol22 Jun 2017 6:29 a.m. PST

Between the damage that Stalin did to his own army and country, the weight of the German invasion and the addition of a Japanese invasion, it would have been interesting.

I still don't think it would have been enough. Japan's armor and anti-armor capabilities were geared more to a pre-WWII opponent. They probably would have fought well, but also probably would have sustained losses that Japan could not sustain.

That would have left Japan in an overall poor condition and position for the balance of the war.

ScottWashburn Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 8:05 a.m. PST

Japan would have been at a major disadvantage when it came to tanks, but on the other hand, their air forces (including naval air forces were far superior to the Soviets. As noted, it is conceivable that a major effort on their part in 1941 in conjunction with the Germans might have been enough to tip the balance.

But it's highly unlikely that the Japanese would go along with such a plan since it gains them no immediate benefits (like oil) that they reaped by going south as they actually did.

advocate22 Jun 2017 9:04 a.m. PST

Just stopping the Siberian reinforcements going west could have made a big difference. But hadn't the Soviets given the Japanese a bloody nose not long before? Without a powerful incentive they weren't going to try again anytime soon.

Old Contemptibles22 Jun 2017 12:11 p.m. PST

Amazing how non-cooperative the Axis were at the strategic level. If the Japanese had left Pearl Harbor and all other US territory alone and just went after the European Colonies and the USSR, would the US enter the war?

This would have put the Roosevelt Administration in a tough situation. I don't think the US would have intervene. Such was the strength of the anti-war lobby.

Just a credible threat to the USSR would have kept those troops in Siberia. But Stalin's spy network confirmed the Japanese were no threat.

Mithmee22 Jun 2017 12:13 p.m. PST

Even if the Japanese attacked Russia the results would have been the same in the end.

Plus Japan would have gotten their asses attacked.

HidaSeku22 Jun 2017 1:04 p.m. PST

The Japanese had their hands full against the Chinese as is. I can't imagine they'd proffer much of an offense in 1941. The Soviets had a much longer path to fall back on, and the Japanese lacked the logistics to wage war on such a deep enemy.

Perhaps some Siberian reinforcements would've had to stay put in the East, but with Germany having such success in the West there would still be transferring of divisions westward, Japanese or no Japanese.

rmaker22 Jun 2017 1:08 p.m. PST

Does anybody really think that trying to fight at the wrong end of the Transiberian Railway would have worked any better in 1941 than it did in 1904-05? Especially after the retreating Soviets had wrecked it? And, as advocate pointed out, the experience of Nomonhon had convinced the Japanese General Staff that they wanted nothing to do with a war against the Soviets.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 4:05 p.m. PST

The Japanese don't need to actually do much attacking, just don't get involved in a war against the USA or the UK, and blockade the USSR from American support via Siberia.

I doubt the US would have gone to war over Indochina or the East Indies if Japan left the British possessions and US possessions alone. Once Germany took over France and the Dutch it's hard to say the Japanese can't take over their possessions in the Far East as allies of Germany.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
bunkermeister.blogspot.com

Personal logo piper909 Supporting Member of TMP22 Jun 2017 8:49 p.m. PST

Excellent points made above. It is one of the failings of the Axis & Allies game -- which is otherwise excellent in so many respects -- that a winning strategy involves the Japanese making a wholly impossible-in-the-real-world blitzkrieg on the USSR and rolling tank armies to Moscow virtually unimpeded.

Old Contemptibles27 Jun 2017 10:18 a.m. PST

Good point about the Chinese. We tend to forget the Japanese were at war with China since 1937.

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