"Young Gamers Don't Like Historical Gaming" Topic

Do they not like it, or do they not have exposure and easy access to it? There are certainly some fantasy/sci-fi gamers who don't like historical gaming, but there are also historical gamers who don't like fantasy/sci-fi.

Based on what I've seen at our local events, the younger players are around the Sci-Fi and Horror games, the older around the Historical. Not much fantasy played.

My theory is that the Sci-Fi games are more colorful…..and are "just games" as opposed to historical recreations….

Dave

Just weighing in here.
We are fortunate to have 5 young guys in our group- over 20 under 30. They all started as computer- shooter- GW 40K-role players, in that order. After watching some of my historical games they joined in and now enjoy the games.
They still play AoS, 40K, Necromunda and HH and now so do we older guys. In fact I have recently begun to play AoS (very much enjoyed), Necromunda (bought my own gang/crew) and just played Apocalypse(would do again in 6mm).
The 3 boys across the street are 13-and 11. They are into role playing D&D and are highly interested in Historical gaming. Ever since Star Trek ToS and the 1960's space race I've also loved space and space games.

As a history teacher, I think the problem is more the lack of knowledge about history and historical periods for historical gaming. As opposed to lack of interest. At a recent workshop I attended during a wellness break, a bunch of of the ladies started to play various card and similar games. Most were in the 22-early thirties age range.

Sorry for the extra long post. Just my thoughts and observations as I sit drinking coffee on Louis Riel Day (founding father of Manitoba)- a provincial holiday here.

P.S. Look him up. Could be a really cool series of games.
The 1885 Rebellion not 1870.

Gamers who like history, like historical gaming.

Gamers who like to game, don't really care whether the game is historical or not.

Young gamers who grew up with computers would rather play a game on a computer which doesn't require the patience of a tabletop game.

Louis Riel Day (founding father of Manitoba)- a provincial holiday here.

P.S. Look him up. Could be a really cool series of games.
The 1885 Rebellion not 1870.

And RAFM makes figures for it.

I agree that it's more lack of exposure than anything. And maybe some negative propaganda by older SF/Fantasy gamers as well. I had two young men (early 20's) in my Napoleonic game at GaryCon last year, first timers, and both were surprised at how much fun they were having, since their regular gaming pals (two separate groups) had told them that historicals were boring.

I have some. I'm just looking for a good set of skirmish rules for the period and for for my U.S. Cavalry vs. Indians…oops Indigenous Peoples. :)
And I think I would like to switch to 15mm. On a big table they would look great.

To be honest I've no idea what youngsters prefer.

It's been over 35 years since I last set foot in a club and back then nobody was under 25.

My experience is that it's like typical drug addiction. You need a starter before you get them onto the heavy stuff.

So the youngsters start off with the computer games and SF, then they'll dive into RPG's using miniatures via some variant on Zombie apocalypse/Halo/Doom shooter ups or Fantasy equivalents. They like the "This figure is me and I'm awesome!' Which leads into Skirmish type gaming leading small groups and here the history steps in. "Remember great Uncle bob? He was in France in WWII and this is about one of his stories…"

It's all about progression. We old farts grew up living and breathing WWII and Korea with a physical lifestyle (street football etc), not many other distractions apart from all those Boom-Sis-Rah WWII movies so we all started with multiple unit historical wargames. The youngsters have a different starting point, but they'll grow towards the historical, if they stick with the hobby that is.

Now, where's my copy of "Charge!"… I left it here somewhere…

oops Indigenous Peoples

First Nations. They're Canadian. ;-)

I've no idea – do many of them get a choice as to what they play ?

How many 'young' gamers get exposed to historical wargaming enough to know which they prefer, I've met plenty that barely know it exists.

I agree it is a question of exposure – there is a lot of sci-fi and fantasy that young folks get exposed to, but if they see some of the historical they can get quite engaged – No. 2 grandson asked me about tank gaming so I started doing Panzerkids with him and he is turning into a true treadhead!

For the past five years I worked as a YA Librarian and as part of that ran gaming programs for tweens and teens. While, yes, they knew of D&D (and loved it), they also enjoyed historical games. (Granted, I wasn't doing minis programs, but the theme is the key here.) Favorite games included Axis & Allies (and these young fans knew their WWII!), Battle Cry and Wings of War (I just used original card-based game, not the minis).
The kids had no problems responding to these history-based games.

The truth is that teens and tweens do indeed know and love history, and will gladly accept and play historical games, as long as the experience is positive and fun. They just need to be exposed to the opportunities and allowed to explore them at their own pace. They'll do the rest themselves— just as we did.

+1 to Parzival.
There's Young historical players around my neck of the woods, and many of them also play SF games and 40k – I make the distinction, as 40k is the definition of the "simple non historical game" while there are SF and Fantasy rules that rival any historical game system for complexity and "seriousness".

My experience is young wargames and soldier enthusiasts love historical topics because (as one youngster memorably put it to me, some years ago) it's like warhammer only it really happened …

I have found there are genuinely many adult (even ageing) fantasy gamers who themselves believe historical games are boring and who (regularly) assert that this is actually true – and that therefore the right/ideal/only way to encourage younger enthusiasts is to use fantasy/sci-fi as an entry point to wargaming.

A lot of people do seem to buy into this argument but I don't think it is evidence-based in any way (and is contrary to many people's own experience) …

I think people find what they like and historical wargaming remains widely appealing.

Phil

When given the opportunity or asked to join in, younger gamers do like historical games, but at this time in the hobby the odds are heavily against recruiting them. For one thing, most of the game stores they frequent are loaded with Gloomhaven, X-Wing, WH40K, and more, all with incredible components that don't require painting. The most work that you may have to do is to sticker blocks and read the rules for games like Red Alert or Command & Colors. Getting them to play historical wargaming is one thing, getting them to commit to it is another. Definitely not impossible, but the odds are stacked at the moment against it.

"I have found there are genuinely many adult (even ageing) fantasy gamers who themselves believe historical games are boring and who (regularly) assert that this is actually true – and that therefore the right/ideal/only way to encourage younger enthusiasts is to use fantasy/sci-fi as an entry point to wargaming."

Yes! Witness the rise again of The Fantasy Trip, an RPG system that is around 40 years old. The redesign/re-release made Steve Jackson's Games top five selling products and each new release has been wildly popular. Most of those gamers (I'm on the Facebook group for it) have little to no intention of getting into or back into historical miniatures.

Not really sure in any case. And I read a graphic novel a few years back about Riel. Quite interesting.

Kevin –
"As a history teacher, I think the problem is more the lack of knowledge about history and historical periods for historical gaming. As opposed to lack of interest. At a recent workshop I attended during a wellness break, a bunch of of the ladies started to play various card and similar games. Most were in the 22-early thirties age range."

Me –

How about some history teachers who actually know something about history (which I am sure you have Kevin)?

My son is 15 years old and is currently taking a world history class in high school. The teacher claimed that he was teaching from the angle of "How military conflict changed the world". My son, who has been playing historical games since he could reach the table top, jumped at the opportunity. He came home this last fall saying that he had stunned his teacher. I guess they had been discussing the effects of the 30 years war and my son brought up how Gustavus Adolphus brought together a number of separate ideas into the Swedish army and changed the future of military organization, his teacher kinda brushed him off and said we are not going to be focusing on the Swedes during this time. And my son spent several minutes point and counterpointing the teacher on the subject.

Well, let's just say my son has made it his personal objective to drive this poor guys nuts. Which, although I am a teacher, I complete support. I guess there was a heated debate in his class last week about how much effect the Spartacist Rebellion (1919) had on the rise of the Nazi's in Germany.

So, to get back to the pole. I believe they are out there, we just need to bring them into the fold. I read something in another post about the decline in conventions. Personally, our convention here in the Northwest (Enfilade) is rolling right along and many of us have noted the raise in younger players.

-W

HEHEHE – Oh and I REALLY need to change that picture of him!