"Serious Army Collectors: Which Scales?" Topic

So we did this just a week or two ago … for 28mm … 46% disagreed with that 28mm is the most popular size among serious collectors of model armies whilst only 37% agreed.

So now we are running it again, upside down (when will the 28mm gang stop trying to bash this square peg into their round holes ?? ) …

My 'other' is 30mm flats … Definitely not the same as 28/30mm …

But there are a whole series of problems here …

Serious: many people don't consider themselves serious (although of course Warlord put that word in so that people who disagree with them automatically are downgraded to lightweights)

Armies: many people consider that wargame armies are not actually armies (generally just contingents or small forces – drop your own diminutive) … some hold that collecting armies is only possible in 6mm.

How many figures constitute an army?

28/30mm: of course, this doesn't exist as a scale (height) and is a punt at implying that modern 28mm figures (which literally grew out of older 25mm and are still sometimes defined as 25/28) is really the successor and partner of the old 30mm scale a la 'Willie' et al. Which, of course, it isn't.

Because some don't take themselves seriously, others don't collect whole armies, and others (like me with my 30mm flats) don't accept 28mm-30mm as a credible bracket, only a whole series of rewrites would turn Warlord's (otherwise pretty useless) self-serving hype into a useful poll topic.

Phil

I'm not a "collector", I play games with miniatures. And I agree that the term "serious" seems a little self important or whatever. But, I think that within the hobby community, the terms "Army" or "Armies" and "28mm" and "28-30" are common terms in use with generally understood meanings.

Phil, They seems to really have you in a twist today, take a deep breath, just enjoy the world's greatest hobby.

To me an Army is a pretty robust bunch of minis – I have minis in scales from 120mm down to 6mm, but I only really have armies in 6mm, 15mm, 20mm and 28mm

Lots of nice figs in other scales, though

If Aerial forces count as "armies' than 3mm plus the odd 6mm WW1 legacy planes, 15/18mm, and legacy 25mm – but if not than 3mm (just started,) 15/18mm, and legacy 25mm.

And I don't consider myself much of a "serious army collector" but my wife, family, and friends do.

I think the guys who are 'serious' about a particular 'wargame army' go for one of the major scales; 15 or 18mm, 20mm 25mm and 28mm. Those to me seem to have the best selection of figures and also allow you to get all those rear echelon units and quircky vignettes that bring the army and table to life.

Guys who are just building an army to play with don't worry about that stuff.

I have 15mm for most of my armies. I have my ACW armies in 10mm. If I had to do it all again, I probably would stick with 10mm. I mostly stuck with 15mm because that was how I got started with Minifigs Napoleonics back in the late 70s. So other armies followed suit.

My tops for army collection is 15mm — the cost and storage space for collecting the DBA Army Checklist in a larger scale would be prohibitive =^,^=

Next biggest collection is 28mm Blood Bowl teams, but that's a much shorter checklist ~,~

6mm Scit-Fi armies may beat out 25mm Fantasy armies….

Other periods, I only have 2-3 armies each, I don't think that's a 'collection'.

For the sake of argument I'm assuming that an 'army' is enough for a single player's force in a wargame and that 'serious collector' means that I've got mostly armies rather than lots of odd figures.

Loads of 2mm stuff, mostly generic because of the size. Ancients, Renaissance & Revolutionary War (the one in Europe)

3mm France 1940 still in preparation

6mm Renaissance, HotT

10mm WW1

15mm Early Medieval Britain DBA

20mm VBCW

Anything smaller than 15mm is just base collecting.

Phil, They seems to really have you in a twist today, take a deep breath, just enjoy the world's greatest hobby.

Sound advice, irishserb … actually have had a nice lunch with friends instead of the deep breath … but you are right: this scale prejudice the editor keeps chucking up does annoy me. Eventually it will have been peddled so many times people will think it must be based on something.

And I do know, first hand, that that is why Warlord put the otherwise irrelevant assertion in their rules and books (they explicitly have an agenda to assert the primacy of the 28mm figure – not because it has primacy but because it is the scale they like) …

It's not as if there haven't been some good polls suggested more recently than 2011 …

I think the men in white coats are coming to get me …

Phil

And I do know, first hand, that that is why Warlord put the otherwise irrelevant assertion in their rules and books (they explicitly have an agenda to assert the primacy of the 28mm figure – not because it has primacy but because it is the scale they like) …

And, more to the point, the scale they manufacture.

… well, rmaker, indeed, making sure everything you could possibly want is available for you in 28mm is part of the bigging up process – so they like it and they make it (but notice how, unlike many outfits, they don't do other scales .. why would they given they, themselves, are serious collectors and appeal to serious collectors?

OK – I know … I'll go paint some figures …

Phil

Yes. I collect armies (forces, often both sides, sufficient to get a good game). I don't buy individual figures or single units (except prehaps as a test).

And I collect them in multiple scales. Generally the larger the force being represented, the smaller the figures.
As an aside, I gain great pleasure when I can re-use an army I already have for a different game.

Phil, I sympathise with your pain, but I don't think this particular poll is pushing 28mm as such – it's asking what scales we game in. The 'serious collector' poll did wind me up as well, though.

For the sake of argument I'm assuming that an 'army' is enough for a single player's force in a wargame and that 'serious collector' means that I've got mostly armies rather than lots of odd figures.

I know people who only play skirmish games and people who only play "armies" where masses of figures are moved as a unit. Horses for courses.

Not sure what "… enough figures for a player's force in a war game…" means – IHMN has some relatively small "armies" I think.

MB : I think it unlikely that a skirmish game is going to use the term 'army' but, even if it did, it may well compare in size with some mass-combat games. A DBA army could have as few as 24 figures.

I was avoiding the figure count in my description on purpose because I think it irrelevant within the terms of this discussion. If you are happy to call your Saxon warband an army (and the Saxons probably did) or your 1:1 platoon with supports for Bolt Action then fair enough.

The OP is asking for comments relating to the scale/size of figures you use not how many of them.

The scale question seems to be for land armies only with infantry at that. No scaling for Navel, Microarmor, space ships, or giant robots.

As for the army issue, I call a basic unit of troops meeting the basic requirements for a battle in that rules set an army.

Other: 1/72, 1/76

And Phil, I've always hated the term "armies" in this context. I just call it figures and models as in I have models and figures for Germans, etc. "Armies" just sounds… inappropriately large to me.

I am a Army collector all in 15mm.
Prussian 1813 I, II, III Corp
Russian 1812 only a Division and a half short of The First Western Army of Borodino
Hanoverian/British Wallmoden Corp

Been collecting Ancients in 2mm for a few years.

Now have 4 Early Imperial Roman Legion at 1:2 figure ratio
with 40 Auxiliary Cohorts and 20 Cavalry Ala in attendance.
Say 24,000 troops.

Celts number 25,000 infantry, 6000 cavalry and 140 chariots.

I class them as Armies.

You all realize you had your chance to help refine the wording of this poll when it was submitted back in 2011. ;)

Because some don't take themselves seriously, others don't collect whole armies, and others (like me with my 30mm flats) don't accept 28mm-30mm as a credible bracket, only a whole series of rewrites would turn Warlord's (otherwise pretty useless) self-serving hype into a useful poll topic.

This was an old poll from 2011. One of the things that sparked the idea for this poll was my purchase of some ugly undead figures for my Vampire Counts army. It was a questionable purchase based in the figures found in the VC army book. Figures I had not planned to use. I simply wondered if people shared my obsession.

I'm not even sure what Warlord was up to in 2011.

I'm not even sure what Warlord was up to in 2011.

OK … But the first sentence of your 2011 contribution links directly to the Warlord games/Hail Caesar quote (which is why I referred to it)

If you follow you own link, you'll see the relevance.

Phil

Well, now I remember what Warlord was doing…..And I see the connection. Still, this poll really had nothing to do with Warlord, makes no value judgments on a person's preferred choice of scale (whether it is an accepted classification or not,) and seems easily understood by the majority of respondents. Simply, it is a light hearted, informal poll that is useful for its entertainment value only.

Oh, and BTW, the questionable figures that were purchased before this poll are still in their boxes and packed away somewhere.