"SS re-enactors at Salute" Topic

Where's the option: Never heard of SS.

Ok, that's silly. I wasn't at Salute.

I wasn't at Salute, but what I hear from comments and descriptions on other threads, I would be rather worried and uneasy about how this was presented, with kids dressed as hitler jugend and selling CD's of nazi marching songs and hitler mugs. For me, and many random non-gamers, I presume, that looks just like neo-nazi scum.

I really fail to see the intellectual exercise or the need to 'breaking open a discussion'. Do we need to revision the role of the SS in the nazi-regime?

If I were a trader I'd be seriously ed off if my product was associated with Hitler merchandise.

I am old enough to know something about the war (born in 1946 in a country that had been occupied – The Netherlands) and it does not worry me. But the real question is: could there be visitors who – because of loss of family, for instance – COULD be hurt. As long as one is not sure that people could be hurt, a responsible organisation does not allow this.

I think it was in rather poor taste IMHO, only time will tell how much damage was done PR wise to the con and the hobby itself.

I have to admit there were several of us from our club who were rather disturbed by the young teens playing dress up as Hitler Jugend. The glorification of Nazi units in wargaming circles is disturbing itself, but at least, I hope, those adults are at least aware of what they're portraying to include the evil doctrine the Nazi's represented. But putting modern-day children into costume only puts a smiling face onto a horrible political/racial ideology.

There are none so offended as those who seek to be offended.

No one seems to have objected to the guys wandering around in samurai kit. Are the people who are tetchy about the Nazis not equally angry about the behaviour of the Japanese?

No one seems to object to people wargaming with Mongol armies. Why aren't they expressing their outrage at the race that proposed annihilation of the entire Chinese people?

What about Romans? Imposing their will and law on free peoples? Why don't we hear the screams of anger at such insensitive behaviour?

Hmm, then there are those guys who run Hebrew armies too?
No condemnation for the genocide of the Canaanites being glorified?

Sorry?

Seems to have gone a little quiet out there?

Now before some idiot suggests that I am condoning the Nazis or some other such nonsense (which I'm not), it's over sixty years.

Yup, Nazism was bad. We got the message.

It's history.
The war is over.
Stop nursing wounds that aren't even yours to tend.
Learn the lesson…and move on.

What are they going to have next year, KKK re-enactors?

You fail to understand that the nazi's occupied half of western europe and tortured or killed parents, grandparents or relatives of many in western europe, including of gamers and people who might be interested in miniatures or just passing by.

I find it extremely silly to try to simpilfy matters by comparing the nazis to the mongols and the samurai. I bet you come from a country that wasn't occupied by the nazis or didn't bother your family.

Wrong again.

My family fought them and won.
However, they fought them and won, not me.
We've got the mesals in the drawer but they're not mine.

I have no right to moral outrage and, let's be frank, nor have you!

You might find it "extremely silly" to compare the atrocities of older civilisations with those of the Nazis.
Why?
Is there an expiry date on evil?
A "sell by date" on abominations?

Or is it simply that it's fashionable to be outraged by the nasty Nazis….?

Look in the mirror and work out why you find it "silly".
It reveals a lot about you.

Seems to be in the so called modern world we have an entire generations of idiots that delight in public display of offensive, vulgar, and repugnant behavior.

I find it silly because survivors and their direct family are still alive.
That doesn't reveal an awful lot about me though, I guess.

Why does that make it silly?
You fail to explain why you are not equally unhappy about all mankind's sins not just that might be embarassing?

Thurlac,
My (Jewish) nanny was forced to serve as a translater in Auschwitz, forced to translate to many of her family and friends before they were either gassed or forced into slave labour.
That does have an impact on me!
And also anyone with a bit of decency in them, the SS represented the worst of what was wrong with the entire regieme.
The other groups that you have mentioned were not bent on commiting Genocide in this radical form.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Deutschland
Joe

As a point of information, for those without children in the UK education system, there is heavy coverage and analysis on the Hitler Jugend in the British National Curriculum.

Do not assume ignorance on the part of these people, even the young ones. I spoke to a cople, they knew what they were doing and seemed perfectly sane individuals.

On the other hand, admitting that people you wish to denigrate might not be complete idiots does knock the wind out of your sails a little doesn't it?

Is someone going to call Social Services please about those Viking re-enactors giving their kids baby's first sword for a quick raping and pillage?

Joe,

I feel for your family's horrific experience.
I fail to see why that gives you the right to veto the actions of others or suppress the historical representation of real events.

I know that Germany has some pretty weird laws (well, weird to anyone taught about historical theory and basic freedom of speech in Europe) but the rest of us don't.

My own uncle suffered some pretty horrible things in the Far East at the hands of the Japanese. However, I didn't tackle the samurai about their tasteless and horrific activities.

I'm sorry Joe that someone you know suffered at the hands of the Nazis. However, that doesn't give you the right to silence other people who might want to look at this period of Europe's history with a more objective eye.

With respect I'd recommend a little more historical research would reveal that the other groups I mentioned did have as radical, if not more so, suggestions for sins against their fellow man.

So why aren't you interested in that?
Or is evil only evil if it's in close proximity?

The problem is, Thurlac, that there actually are neo-nazis out there that glorify Hitler and really would like to reinstate Nazi ideals. OTOH, there are no groups out there who seek to emulate the Mongols. Nor are Viking reinactors going to start taking to the longboats to burn down Abbeys.

Glorifying the Nazis and what they did is a borderline hate crime.

And why would one be upset about a Samurai costume – the Samurai were the legitimate warrior class in Japan.

Again, if they were portraying German soldiers it would be interesting but the SS was the military arm of the Nazi party. People are offended by the politics not the people. Neo Nazi show us the that idiots do not require anything more than an opportunity to have diarhea of the mouth and spew their crap.

When playing WWII games lots of people want to play the Germans, I don't mind playing the Germans. I don't like playing the Nazis though. How many people like to play the Soviet but still refer to them as Russians. And of course there are the Japs. As I mentioned in an earlier thread I think the dislike is for the politics and not so much the people as a whole. That is my hope at least.

The effort these people put in this display at a GAMES convention was simply terrific.
While I can't sympathise with the actual troops they were portraying I have to admit that it was one of the finest displays I've seen ever.

Neither do I feel any sympathy for Mongols, Samurai, Zulu warriors or Stalin's butchers in Finland and representations of ALL these troops were also on display today at Salute

And before Area 23 accuses me of living in a country that never felt the Nazi regime. I'm a Fleming (Belgian) and my father was wounded three times whilst in the resistance and fighting alongside the Canadian troops that liberated our city. That last bullet took him out of the war and crippled him for life.

My grandmother was Irish and two of her brother (my great uncles I suppose) died in respectively Royal Air Force and Merchant Navy service. One killed by Germans the other by Japanese.

Yet I bought the latest Samurai Perry figures today.

I wasn't at Salute.

I am in the process of collecting units to paint as 12th SS Hitlerjugend because it was a main opponent of the Canadians in Normandy (and they make nice targets). I suppose wargamers like them because they got cool kit and camo uniforms, unlike the poor colourless old landser.

If people want to reenact them, that's their moral choice, but it's not a choice I'd make. For me, I'm very mindful that 12th SS killed many of my fellow Canadians after capturing them in Normandy, including one of my own branch, an army padre. So I'm not a fan.

Some of the SS fought well on the battlefield, but they were the military arm of an extremely unpleasant regime. I'm glad we beat the bastards. That being said, I'd be just as unhappy if some NKVD reenactors turned up at a CON.

The Mad Padre

In another thread the main gist and grouse against he SS guys is the image it gave out to members of the public as the SS dudes wandered about outside the hall and as they (the public) looked into the hall (from the main entrance you saw a PAK with a few swastika clad cronies manning it) – lots of effort, time and money put into it but having kids wandering about dressed up as Hitler Youth probably did little for the image of 'wargaming' when mr and mrs public (went down to collect my London Marathon tickets and guess what we saw) went out of the vincinity and told their mates about how all wargamers dress up as Nazis – the general feeling seems to be there is a time and place and this was neither.

I personally think that dressing up as an overweight anything (from Viking to Samurai) just shows you to be the sad git you probably are … but then again I'd hate to arrive at school for work on Monday to be met with the 'hey you wargame, do you dress up like a Nazi like those blokes we saw on Saturday as well?"

I was at SALUTE today and I must admit I found the presence of the Waffen SS re-enactors a little disturbing because they were the only re-enactors present that I could see. If they had been part of a larger presence they could have been seen as part of an historical display, and would have not appeared to be so omnipresent.

That said, the display was very well done, and did represent more than just the military; it gave a glimpse of the German 'Home Front'. There were children in HJ uniform, but then there would have been in a large number of German homes at the time.

One comment I did hear alluded to the fact that some of the re-enactors were – to put it politely – somewhat well covered and/or well into middle age. In fact the speaker hinted that they might have been better off in a Volksturm re-enactment group.

The impression I had was they took what they did very seriously, and did not seek to glorify the Waffen SS as an arm of the Nazi Party as such, but represent them as an elite fighting force. Whether one thinks that this is a poor choice or lack judgement on their part is a matter of opinion.

My wife is Japanese, one of her grandfathers was involved in some pretty bad stuff. Should I hold that against her?

It was a poor choice to allow Baddies (the SS), with no goodies (Allies), to counter them at Salute.

But I also feel that there are a lot of people who just love to jump on what they see as their moral high horse, as Thurlac says, do historical events not have an expiry date. I find the SS no more offensive than the NKVD, Crusaders, Alexander's Macedonians, Carthaginians or the Conquistadors

What a lot of crap from some of these apologists!

If I had walked in with my friend's son, a 13 year old Jewish kid that I am introducing to wargaming, how exactly would I explain the SS tribute group to his dad? Was there anything other than the SS present…no, no there wasn't, so trying to say "Well, it was educational" is not really going to cut it, eh? Perhaps if there was a bunch of Tommies, some Partizans, maybe a group of Yankee's, I could make the case for representation. But on their own? were the SLWarlords thinking?

The difference between the Mongol hordes, Julius's XX Legion, the Takogamisha Clan etc.. and the SS, is that I wouldn't have to placate the father of ANY of my friends if they had been represented.

Frankly someone should have stomped a mud-hole in their . If I had been there, I would have, jail be damned.

I wasn't at Salute, but I have been to events where there have been many re-enactors. I will try to connect this to those of us that aren't so intimately connected to the horrors of the Second World War. In my part of the country (Texas), we have lots of Civil War re-enactors. Mostly Confederate, in the South there is still, a hundred and forty-two years later, a great deal of controversy over the Confederate flag. My thoughts are, my great, great, grandfathers fought for States Rights and for the Confederacy. Other people see the Confederacy for the slave issue and trying to break up the Union. It has been a LONG TIME. I don't know anyone who thinks slavery is anything but morally reprehensible, or do I know anyone that has owned a slave or been one. For those of you that had a much closer brush with the nightmare that was the Nazi or for that matter those that came in contact with the Japanese Empire, it may take a hundred and fifty years before anyone can stomach a swastika and take it for its historical face value. But, before we judge to harshly those re-enactors, we need to look at our little toy armies and the hours we put into painting, organizing, and gaming with, the horrors that war produced no matter how long ago it happened. In the past there was someone that shuddered at the thought of the Romans, Vikings, the Huns, Moors, not to mention any of the more modern armies that are out there. Anyone gaming the Bosnian-Serbian conflict? I know there are some modern skirmish stuff for Iraq. Every war is horrible. The Nazi are without a doubt, horrible and anything that verges on glamorizing any aspect of them should be thought over long and hard. In the event I've been to, they have been real careful to represent both side to a conflict, that seems to put a balance to it. I try to look objectively at the situation. For my hobby, I want to shy away from anything that would put a negative shadow on what I enjoy. Nazi re-enactors at my convention? Hmmmm, only if you're disarmed and surrendering to the Allies. Then that would be fine.

I wasn't at Salute, but they would have made me feel uncomfortable.

Same as Barks, here.

The choice "wasn't at Salute" was completely irrelevant and skews the results of the poll – the question was: "How do you feel about the presence of SS re-enactors at Salute 2007?", not if you attended.

I agree with Rob Hamper on thi sort of thing – One really needs to thing about the irrelevant answers and the possible consequences of including it.

I personally don't see a problem with it. I wargame with SS troops, what's the difference? But I can understand people being sensitive to that sort of thing, for various reasons.

The Cangames convention in Ottawa, Canada, when I attended it in the 90s, used to have a blanket policy that no replica or real uniforms of armies of the 20th century were permitted.

"What are they going to have next year, KKK re-enactors?"

Nah -- it'll be a "Nazis vs. the KKK" battle simulation. That way, nobody will know who to root for.

Oh, and Thurlac: Your "no right to moral outrage" argument is beyond asinine. Next you'll tell me that white people aren't allowed to be offended by racist jokes.

While the display was well organised, I was a rather put off that they had to choose the SS rather than say a normal Wehrmacht unit. Yes, people have a tendency to shift towards extremes rather than the middle, but in this instance it was a bit in bad taste. Doubly so as the Excel Centre was host to a number of other exhibitions and to lots of people who appeared to be signing up for the London Marathon. Not the best image of wargamers to give to the general public.

Interestingly, as stated above, most of the re-enactors seemed to be in their 50s and far better fed than their historical counterparts could ever have dreamed of… some would have had an impossible time fitting into the hatches of the tanks, whose black uniformed officers they were simulating
:-)

This was in extremely bad taste.

Yes, there were Waffen-SS units that fought honorably, blah blah blah, but still, extremely bad taste.

One of my favorite WW2 books is 'Forgotten Soldier' (IIRC), written by a former SS enlisted man who was drafted into the SS. Fascinating read.

Here's my take:

Every year on the Sunday before Memorial Day the Great Lakes Naval and Maritime Museum they hold a "Lost Boat Service" at the USS Silversides. A couple of years ago the museum brought in a group of "WWII German" reenactors for the event. Yep, you guessed it they had one guy in SS camo who looked more like Jolly Hermann Goering or Sgt. Schultz than Michael Wittmann or Jochen Peiper. Anyway his wife was dressed as a German nurse of the period and IIRC his son was dressed in the kneepants of the HJ.

Needless to say this didn't go over that well with some of the vets. I felt a wee bit queasy as well but when I chatted with the gent about the rifle he was carrying (it was a non-functional StG-42) he mentioned that he also did WWII Russian reenacting as well.

Ok, that's fine but I guess my complaint with the whole thing was that this was the only representation there. I could understand it more if there had been rennactors dressed in U-boat crew uniforms (BTW they had more Nazis than any other military branch), or if there were Allied reenactors there as well. I would have felt just as queasy with Japanese or Italian rennactors there without the "other side" shown. It needs to be put in a deeper context.

This goes for Salute as well. ANYTIME you have a "fringe" hobby activity such as ours where the lay public will either look to us as nuts or just sad you need to make sure that we put the best foot forward, so to speak and make certain that there is little chance for misunderstanding. If we don't do this we just make our own situation worse.

as Sylvia Plath wrote, so long ago in "Daddy"

Not God but a swastika
So black no sky could squeak through.
Every woman adores a Fascist,
The boot in the face, the brute
Brute heart of a brute like you.

I was at Salute but, not being particularly interested in WWII didn't pay much attention to the reenactors around their gun, and did not immediately identify them as Waffen SS. Later, however, I was surprised to see children in HJ uniform wandering around, and do feel it was both in poor taste and an error of judgement on the part of the Salute organisers that could – and probably will – result in bad publicity for Salute in particular and the wargame hobby in general.
It would not, after all, be unreasonable to assume that people who recreate historical units do so because they have both some interest in, and admiration for, the troops they portray. This is where the problem arises, because although the reenactors may simply be portraying a Waffen SS unit because of its combat performance, spectators may imagine that their choice also indicates some sympathy for the political ideology for which the unit fought. As previous contributors have pointed out, neo-Nazism still exists today, and people affected by Nazi persecution &c. are still alive, which does, IMHO, make a difference from portraying regicidal Parliamentarians, Confederate slave-owners and other groups whose beliefs are no longer acceptable in the 21st century.
A final thought: why have reenactors at a wargame show anyway?

Bloody ridiculous. The organiser should be given a swift kick up the arse for letting a lot like that in.

Close minded? When it comes to people in SS uniforms.. you better believe it!

We all know that no side in WWII is free of any blame. We all know that even the "good guys" did behave as beasts etc.

But the problem is that the SS were basically told "You are Germanic Demi-Gods and the people you are facing are not even human beings, so do as you please as long as you crush them utterly." The big difference between an SS soldier and a Viking, Samurai, Mongol etc is that they had a fully documented racist war-mongering ideology driving them actively inciting them to commit atrocious crimes.

I have no problems with a general WWII reenactment which includes the odd SS soldier. But the Battlegroup display was, as said in a previous post, a bit too much "in your face"

It seems to me from the posts above that the main problems were bad sighting of the display and a lack of balance in that no other reinactors were there.

Salutes organisers do seem to have shot themselves in the foot!

Stop nursing wounds that aren't even yours to tend.

My Grandfather was one of the first people inside Bergen Belsen.

I have a friend who won't touch World War 2. I asked him why. He told me he was Jewish and his family were Lithuanian. 'Need I say more?' he said.

I remember playing 'war' as a kid when my Grandfather went skitzo on me, shouting I had no idea what I was doing and what I was talking about. He was right. In reality the dead remain dead, the maimed remain maimed.

So these are our wounds and we'll nurse them, thank you.

If you're going to do reenactment, you should tell the whole story. If you're going to show the so called 'cool' then let's see the 'cruel' – where was the information on the Nazi indoctrination of an entire population? How did it become acceptable to 'resettle' Jews, Gypsies, Gays, the Mentally Ill, Political Rivals and anyone else who does not fit? Somehow I don't think reenacting 'resettlement' will catch on. 'Please fill out this questionnaire to determine whether we are going to starve you & work you to death or blow your brains out'.

Now the Allies weren't angels themselves, the story is far more complex than that. Likewise I have German friends, one I met at Salute. I've found them to be friendly and interesting. But Brits playing at being Schutzstaffel? If you're going to tell a story, you have a duty to tell the whole story, not just the allegedly glamourous bits of it.

Lest we forget.

Guy

I second Patrick R's statement (no, not because he's my friend…). I've been a WWII vehicle collector for many years (dressed up in uniform, yes, be it allied…) and do know other people who do the German side. There are thousands of WWII vehicle collectors & reenactors in the UK, so it would have been much wiser to have chosen another group or subject, since the presence of reenactors at a wargames convention is nice but not essential. Therefore, it was a bad move for the hobby when looking at it from a promotional angle, since – indeed – a great number of people might be offended, whatever the attitude of the reanactors might have been (I wans't there). It would have been less of a problem if they would have stayed in place and not have wandered around, but still a problem that could have been avoided.

I have to say that I also found it in very poor taste. There are lots of other German regiments that fought honourably in the second world war (tank regiments in the western desert anyone?) so I'm not sure they really need to go with the SS. It's also very disturbing to see anyone walking around with a Nazi party armband on whatever situation you happen to be in.

I'm also not sure that the argument "It was sixty years ago, get over it" is really applicable here and neither is the assertion that other races in history have sought to exterminate other peoples. The Nazis sought to exterminate (note: not just conquer!) everyone they perceived to be "different" to them, Jewish people, gypsies and POWs from occupied nations and anyone else they decided to turn their hatred on were fed into the death machine to satisfy their warped ideology. They implemented a policy of extermination on a massive scale using industrial methods, the first time in history the two have been used in conjunction. To my mind that makes some notion of equivalence to the Samurai beheading a few hundred defeated enemies somewhat redundant despite it still being morally repugnant. Sixty years on the images from Auschwitz and Belsen still have the power to shock and horrify and I hope they never lose it, if we forget then history will repeat itself.

Distasteful at best, irresponsible at worst IMHO. Let's not repeat it again next year please chaps?

Stop nursing wounds that aren't even yours to tend.
Learn the lesson…and move on.

Amen. We use toy soldiers and play games of killing each other. Most of the time slaughtering them to the last man unless you fail a moral check roll. How many games of little men killing each other have you played, where you pulled back a unit that had lost a lot of troops?? I mean pulled them back before they failed a moral roll and you were forced to make them retreat per the rules? Yet now the high horse comes out and your gonna condem reenactors?? If they were spouting off nazi propaganda or trying to claim hitler was an angel. Then I could understand people being upset. But dressing up like historical people does not sound like a sin to me. If anything its a good thing. 100 years from now when someone wears an SS uniform. People will remember the historical meaning behind and it and remember!!!!

Warlords what were you thinking? How did you come to the descision to invite these people? I was there and the presence of this mob was offensive, was this your intention? Or a total lack of judgement. As for the sale of Hitler mugs they might as well have been Ian Brady and Myra Hindley items.

I think now that you and your show are no longer fit for purpose.

I found the SS uniforms poor taste when I first saw them.

What made the event offensive was the Hitler Youth and that they seemed to be selling Nazi memorabilia.

Show organisers do not generally go out of their way to invite particular groups or clubs to participate, people offer to come. There were only a couple of re-enactment groups at Salute, the ones who wanted to come.

The group in question have their website here:

sbg1.mistral.co.uk

Neo-nazis or serious re-enactors? You decide.

Personally I am always a little uneasy to see people decked out in nazi uniforms at wargames shows as IMHO it gives out the wrong impression to joe public, but equally I respect what re-enactment groups are trying to do.

I felt very uncomfortable about their presence. I thought it was a very poor choice of re-enactors; I hope it won't be repeated.

Simon

As it says on their website:

"The SBG is acutely aware of its controversial portrayal in this hobby and is a totally non political organization.
People with para military, ideological or extreme views will NOT be accepted as members."

So, the interesting point here is the knee jerk reaction from certain posters squealing "oooh, Nazis, how beastly!".

Why?
Wakmaggot feels that their wickedness is that they killed people efficiently as opposed to haphazardly so that makes it worse. Evil is defined by how well it is carried out? Surely something not even Thomas Aquinas considered.

Gecoren, are you really claiming your grandfather's suffering as your own? So because his grandfather was treated horribly, we should hide away all mention of the perpetrators, cast them as irredeemably evil, a plague on their houses, never talk about them? Never EXPLAIN them.

Marquis: so to you, evil is only evil if it embarasses your friends? How about using the opportunity to discuss the matter further with both your friend and his son and maybe, just, maybe giving them an insight into the conflict other than: "Never forget Germans are evil".

How about dicussing the matter of how Nazism rose, why an otherwise normal and civilised nation followed this path and what we need to do about it in future.

It sounds a damned sight more sensible to me to bring this stuff out into the open. Look at the differing roles of the German armed forces in the Second World War, discuss why otherwise sane and decent people were prepared to tolerate it: that's the way to heal wounds, not to wave ancestral crimson banners and shout loudly that people are being insensitive.

I was surprised, taken aback even by the display. It was a challenging display and made me think, long and hard about why I initially felt uneasy about it. However, on reflection, it was a good thing. It is a sign that maybe, just maybe, we can start looking objectively at our own history.

I remember as a young boy attending a lecture by the great historian AJP Taylor. His take on WW2, despite having written extensively on the war, was that a decent history of the war had not, possibly could not be written in his generation. Neither side could view the matter without waving banners and spouting the emotional phrases that they had been fed.

I am hoping that 60 years later we can start to look at this and UNDERSTAND it as opposed to letting our prejudices and ancestral grievances govern our reason.

So, South London Warlords: thank you for something more than the normal bland array of trade stalls and dull demo games. Salute remains the best show in Britain.

Ironwolf: "How many games of little men killing each other have you played, where you pulled back a unit that had lost a lot of troops?? I mean pulled them back before they failed a moral roll and you were forced to make them retreat per the rules?"

Because I try to play linked campaigns, quite a lot actually. I'd rather give ground to save resouces. Most of our winning conditions also reflect casualties. So, my people do matter to me.

None of this is the point really, though. I game in my home or in a club. What I do there is one thing. I do not parade around a part of East London (with its own memories of fascism), in one of the UK's major convention centres, dressed as an SS. Looking (I thought) pretty unfriendly and posturing in the entranceway. I needed to ask something at the Excel information point, and I know that they were a little disconcerted to say the least.

Yes, I do object to the principle. I didn't like the half dozen stall holders and attendees wearing assorted "SS on Tour" t-shirts either. But it is a free country and Warlords can't control that. However, Salute claims to showcase the hobby. And what we got was SS. No balance, no Allies, and no education going on that I saw. Unless you wanted to buy a CD of Nazi music. Or a Hitler mug.

And I don't see what they added to a wargaming convention, either.They took up a lot of space in a central location. Too many traders (who paid for tables) were stuck in cramped locations. I constantly had to weave and fight my way through to get to things. (And it seemed to me quieter than last year?). I think space could have been better used for what I thought Salute was about. And given to those who were paying for space. And to customers paying money. Maybe the re-enactors did mingle and 'educate', but I didn't see it. At least the Star Wars people were trying, although at times they seemed to take their lead from the SS!

Thurlac: "As it says on their website"

Yes, but all their website actually says is what great people the SS were. How glorious were their fighters. It doesn't actually discuss what else they did, or even what the context that they 'know about' is.

My reaction isn't "knee jerk". I was there for the day. If we want to "understand" as you put it, then we need balance and context. There wasn't any. None at all. All we had was SS, Nazi music and Hitler mugs. No British, no Polish, no Rumanian, no American, no Canadian, no Hungarian, no Finnish.

I was at Salute yesterday, I did not find the SS ofensive I just saw them as en-actors,though I did think it was in bad taste. What I did find disturbing was the women dressed up as Nazi's, especially the one pushing the child around in the pushchair.Also the selling of Hitler mugs was way over the top.My friend who was with me found them totally in bad taste, & made a comment about it in the competition slip.
As to the people wandering around in SS on tour T-shirts my thought's were s & s.
Greg