"Why Aren't Painted Miniatures Collectible?" Topic

Collecting anything is something I have never thought about so have no opinion

x42

Socially, it's not recognised as 'Art'.

From the pre-poll discussion "We know what new castings cost and If we can get the painted figures for a bit above that cost, we are happy." 45thdiv.

Someone who paints will only pay a certain amount to have someone else do the painting. Someone who doesn't paint will hire some one to do it or look for the odd bargain.

Besides painting my own, or having others paint them, I do buy others figures from time to time because I like them, and so these become part of my collection as well.

IMO, everyone has their own, unique, preferred style. Even if they do buy pre-painted mini's, they will "touch them up" in some way, to better fit in with their existing painting/basing style. I find it rare among my gamer friends for them to just accept them painted/based the way they come to them. It is more than just fitting in with existing miniatures within their collection, though. They want them in "their style," and that is that.

I am guilty of this as well. My ideal paint job out of the box, would be simple block painting. I would then apply The Dip Technique, followed by my preferred basing technique (I only use rectangular basing, nothing round, per my preferred rules and personal preferences). They would then be ready for my game table. Cheers!

Because for the vast majority of people, they're game pieces, not art. They are not seen as an end in themselves, nor is possession of them an end in itself.

I myself, don't value painted figures highly at all, because I'm looking for game elements which fit in with my other game elements— most of which I've painted myself. And since my standard is "good enough to game with" (or slightly above), while I can admire exceptional painting skills, they don't fit in with my collection. The "art pieces" would not enhance the look of my table, it would detract from it. "Why is that so good and all the others not?" Is not a question I want to come to mind.

Also, figures in play can become worn and damaged. A piece that's painted to be in a display case isn't going to be of value on my table because of the risk that it would be damaged. I'm not going to pay hundreds of dollars for pieces I'd be afraid to use.

So while a painted army has some appeal for me simply on a convenience standard, that's all it is— convenience. And I simply don't value convenience that highly. And even convenience may be less important to me than whether or not a painting scheme fits with the rest of my army (as discussed above).

So while I may admire the skill of other miniatures painters and even be amazed by it, and can appreciate the time, effort and sense of artistry, in truth for my own purposes I place little or no value upon it. I'd be happier with simple block colors that match the schemes I do myself.

I'm "coming out" here and admitting that I have never liked the "collectible" old 54mm toy soldiers, with the stiff poses and glossy paint jobs.
I find it ironic that artistically they are far inferior to even current 15mm figures, yet they fetch collectible prices.

The thing is that those old figures, and their modern equivalents have limited production runs for the nostalgia market. They are artificially collectible, like Hess trucks in original packaging.

Wargame figures cater to a different market altogether. They are not limited edition at all. In the collectible world, something like the Perry Volunteers of Ireland would be a limited edition and obscure. But if the market needs more wargaming figures, they simply put the mold back in the machine and pump out more.

Another reason is that I'm not paying anyone to paint my figures. I'm not buying the Volunteers of Ireland painted by anyone else.

A while ago I got in a bidding war with someone over a batch of OOP Grenadier figures. OOP because the company went kaput. Not because of any artificial collectibility. I lost to a guy who collected unopened blisters. I wanted one particular pack of medieval Italian hand gunners because I needed a few more for a fully painted wargaming unit. I offered to buy it from him, but he "needed it for his checklist".

So, in the bizarro world of "collectibility", an unopened blister is more valuable than those figures painted to a high gaming standard.

Out of production figures will sometimes sell for an inflated price even if they are unpainted. Last year I was looking for some Grenadier Traveler Imperial Marines to round out a unit. I came across two unopened boxes of 12 figures for $160. USD Fortunately, I also found a partial set of ten figures and was able to obtain them for $20 USD which provided me with enough figures for what I needed. I did check on the unopened boxes and they eventually sold. The Grenadier figures were much better than the later offering that never saw production.

Otherwise, I don't buy painted armies, since I can purchase unpainted for much less and paint them myself to a decent standard.

Well….., I just visited Ebay for the heck of it and did a search for them and found a complete set for $30 USD plus $10.65 USD shipping and immediately bought them. There were three unopened and two unopened boxes also up for bid. Prices for the unopened are $100 USD for one and $250 USD for the other two. The opened boxes are $150 USD and $200 USD

I have also seen some extremely high prices for first edition rule sets that are still in print with later editions.

There is no demand for our figures like other kinds of art. If there is demand beyond the gaming community then prices would go up.

Face it guys we play with toys!

Once more, the short version of the question falsified the long. OF COURSE painted miniatures are collectible. Just ask anyone with a set of old Britains. But the first rule of collection is that you can't buy more fresh from the factory.

As for why painted wargame armies don't sell for more--the supply is huge and the demand small. Old wargamers keep dropping thousands or even tens of thousands on the market. Young wargamers usually want smaller armies, and aren't looking for old Scrubys anyway. And many of us enjoy painting our own. Buy and paint miniatures because you want them. They're not an investment.

I agree with RP first statement. And the truth is we all have collection of painted minitures, the fact that they probably have little value to anyone else is a different dicussion.

We all have a collection of painted miniatures. Some collections are worth more than others. There are a great number of painted figures but some are so well done they could be considered fine art. That is the difference in value. A single 54mm done by a well known artist can fetch an above average price. Most of these are fantasy figures.

Then there are those systematic collectors who want certain military units or famous units within a certain period or that were engaged in a particular battle. They are discerning collectors who want a certain look. They are not wargamers.

From my experience I have come to understand that wherever you have more of one thing made, there is a collector for it. I had a boss once who collected the little dairy creamers you put into your coffee at a restaurant. In my younger days I collected beer bottles from around the world.

Toy soldier collecting and historical gaming are two different hobbies with different goals that sometimes cross paths. When a toy soldier collector want's to put his collection on the table and use them, his/her goal is not to recreate history, they goal is to see there toys being played with. Most put them in curio cabinets to be looked at.

It is like any other collecting, it is more about the chase than it is to have them. We historical wargamers have different goals in mind. We have flooded the market with thousands of painted figures but that has zero affect on the toy soldier market. In the end the value of something is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for it.

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"So, in the bizarro world of "collectibility", an unopened blister is more valuable than those figures painted to a high gaming standard."

It is same thing in the model world. Model kits that are unassembled, shrink wrapped in their original box are often worth more than the completed model. If you have a rare wooden model of an airplane by a certain manufacture and assemble it, you just ruined the value of the model by as much as 75%. Same with car and ship models. Out of production model kits of rare subjects can fetch real money. You assemble it, it's ruined.

Yup – and make sure that the kit in the old box is the old kit not the reissue that's been married to an old box that someone had just hung on to.

(It happens – it really happens)

If Hunter Biden can make hundreds of thousands for his paintings, why can't I get the same for my rather nice Conquest Mohawks? Well?

I don't get the "people would rather paint their own figures" choice. That's not what I thought this poll was about. The poll question is why are they not worth more to collectors. Why are the figures we paint not collectable. In this case collectors are not the ones doing the painting. Wargamers are not the collectors. Well any way that choice just doesn't fit. Someone explain this to me.

About half of the choices do not make any sense. It appears the poll is confusing purchasing painted figures for gaming with purchasing them as a collectable. Two different things. Two different markets. The responses are going to be skewed. Your not going to get any usable data from this poll. This poll needs a redo.

Old Contemptible hits the nail on the head – collectable figs and gaming minis are not the same. I happen to have both – the most valuable fig in my collection is a commissioned sculpt of Jean Dominic Larrey, last valued about 10 years ago at $1,200 USD – that would buy a pretty big hunk of my painted gaming minis!

Someone explain this to me.

Some people collect cars to dieplay them. Some people collect cars to drive them. Sonme people just buy cars and drive them.

The third case is not a collector. Even if we say the second case is not a collector, the actions and behavioural rationales of the non-collector affect the collector and the collectability market.

I guess what this poll is really telling us is that the majority of TMP'ers are really gamers, rather than collectors?

My figure 'collection' numbers 1,000+, maybe 2,000? If you count my Army Men (yes, 54mm – 60mm figures for kids), that number alone, is 2,000+. I do not consider any of my toys, "collectable," they're just toys I play with, as an adult. I enjoy them more than any human being has a right to, though.

Recently thought I might lose my job. Thought about selling off my fully painted and based fantasy armies for maybe $1 USD per figure, just to raise cash to pay bills with. Realized that the money would not go very far, and I likely could not even find buyers to give me that much for them! Turns out I will not lose my job (at this time…), so nothing will go on the sale block. Truth is, when I die, the same result is highly likely -- that, or the super-majority will end up in the trash. Cheers!

Rarely do painted figures for gaming cross paths with painted figures for collecting. Figures for collecting draw the big bucks. If the painted figures that you paint approaches the level of fine art then you need to start selling them instead of playing with them. Then take that money buy some Perry and Foundry figures and hire the best wargame figure painter you can find and you will still have money left over to buy terrain.

I think nicely painted wargame figures are collectable. I collect them.

Phil