"Maybe it's time to retire" Topic

As some of you know I'm a police officer with a little over 20 years service, all on the road.

Saturday night I responded to a domestic situation between a elderly couple. When my partner and I got on scene the husband and wife were on the porch and he was holding a shotgun.

I attempted to get close enough to use my taser, but he raised his weapon into a firing position, and I retreated behind my car. We both ordered him to drop the weapon, (I said it 11 times on reviewing the body cam), but he refused to do so.

I ducked down and drew my pistol as he continued to advance on us. His repeated response to "Drop the weapon" was "F you!"

I took up a firing position on the trunk of my car and tried to reason with him. I got him to give me his name and I gave him mine. However, he raised his weapon again and said, "I'm going to -ing kill you."

I fired once and he staggered backwards. He raised the weapon again and I fired a second shot. He dropped his weapon and took a couple of steps back. My partner and I charged towards him and as he moved forward and grabbed his shotgun, I hit him with a body block throwing him backwards to the ground.

My partner and I got him in handcuffs, (after a struggle), and tried to render first aid. I could not find any wounds and was surprised because I thought he staggered back because I hit him. I was quite surprised that I had missed him from about 25 yards.

So, now I'm on desk duty and going through an investigation by another agency, (to prevent any appearance of bias). Its quite stressful as whenever I have some peaceful moments I relive the shooting and have to face the fact that I could find myself charged with a crime and be on trial by the end of the year.

Sounds like you did your best.

Perhaps your second round struck the shotgun, which is why he dropped it (knocked out of his hands)?

Hey mate,

I understand why you are apprehensive; we always think that the "impartial investigators" are biased but I reckon from reading this that you did nothing wrong.

You considered but were unable to deploy non-lethal means.
You were faced with a firearm.
The firearm was raised at you.
You sought cover rather than engage.
You made numerous requests for him to drop the weapon.
The whole situation is centred on HIS possession of a firearm, his apparent intent to use it displayed by threatening you, and his non-compliance with requests to drop the threat/weapon.
If HE had complied with your requests to drop the firearm, you would not have needed to fire.
He advances on you, you continue to verbalise, he ignores you.
It becomes a belief in your mind that you need to protect life (you and your partner).
You fire and he raises the weapon again.
When you realised an opportunity existed to use non-lethal force you flattened him and whacked the bracelets on.

I've been in for 36 years; I would consider your actions justified, restrained and reasonable in the circumstances based on your belief that the protection of life was (reasonably) required. You did not go over the top in response to his threat; he had a gun, so OC spray and a mozzie zapper is not an option.

No experience here, but it seems to me like you fired very, very late in that story. HIs intent was crystal clear, you gave him every chance, maybe went to far.

As far as retiring, I think your work is very hard on a person psychologically. I suspect some LEOs stay at it too long, and that's where some of the bad things originate. We need a system where you are rewarded for your time and don't need to stay in X years to get the best retirement. People should be able to easily get out when they feel they've given enough, before any damage is done, without financial loss or any kind of stigma.

Also, we need to get the police more non-lethal options. They have a lot of cool toys, but clearly they need at least one more.

I retired from the County after 27 years as a criminal investigator. First time I ever drew my weapon when a male subject drew a knife on my partner and I. I ordered him to drop the weapon and he refused saying that he wasn't scared of bullets.

The point of this was what was going through my mind at the time. You are told to do what is necessary to stop the threat but what was going through my mind was all the paperwork I would have to do if I shot this guy. That's not what I should have been thinking. It was a good lesson.

Do retire, I got really tired of dealing with bad guys and retirement is wonderful!

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I had my interview with State yesterday. Turns out I, (very accidentally), pulled a Carlos Hathcock. One of my rounds struck the shotgun just below the ejection port. The angle of entry could only happen if he was pointing the shotgun at me. Bill, you were right!

Rdfraf, I know what you mean about the paperwork. Years ago I kicked in a door where a domestic was going on and the husband was armed with a knife. I came in with my taser in a high ready position and started to bring it up when the door gave way. I dropped it because in my department pointing a taser at someone is a use of force with a required use of force report. I dropped into a low ready because as I raised it I realized I would have to do that damned report.

korsun0, I know what you mean and I think it was a good shoot. However, I'm still stressed at the investigation and the IA which is next week. On top of that we currently have a lot of Soros backed prosecutors who love to charge police. One recently charged a retired officer with manslaughter because he didn't provide first aid to someone another officer had shot. The bad guy was hit in the heart and died within minutes. It took the jury less than 45 minutes to find him not guilty. As soon as the verdict came down she took additional charges on him.

For what my opinion is worth, it's only time for you to retire if you feel like you wouldn't do the same thing if presented with the same situation. IF you would do the same, I feel better knowing you're out there.

You're definitely a good cop. We need you, if you can stay on the job. But if you decide to step away, you have all the right to do so, and indeed have already earned considerable praise for sticking with it as long as you have!
This citizen very much says "Thank you! Job well done!"

Thanks guys.

Police work is a thankless job to many these days, on line converse with a Philadelphia policeman so see at least weekly the trials and tribulations the job goes through.
Good policeman are not easy to find and sounds you did your best.
Good luck