![The Miniatures Page logo](tmpshead.jpg)
"Ronald Pelton, Traitor" Topic
9 Posts
All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.
Please use the Complaint button (!) to report problems on the forums.
For more information, see the TMP FAQ.
Back to the Obituaries Plus Board
Areas of InterestGeneral
Featured Hobby News Article
Featured Link
Featured Showcase Article![The Amazing Worlds of Grenadier](showcase/genshowcase/794287a.jpg) The fascinating history of one of the hobby's major manufacturers.
Featured Workbench Article![Sharpie pens](workbench/pics/gen/2015/18710a.jpg) Trying out the silver Sharpie...
Featured Profile Article![Craft Picker](profiles/pics/2024/754376a.jpg) An inexpensive tool that might be useful on your workbench.
Current Poll
|
Editor in Chief Bill ![Workbencher Fezian](boards/icons/workbencher.gif) | 12 Sep 2022 10:24 p.m. PST |
A former National Security Agency analyst who was arguably its most damaging traitor and became famous for aiding the Soviets during the cold war died last week, according to an obituary posted on the website of a Maryland funeral home… The Guardian: link |
Shagnasty ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 13 Sep 2022 1:18 p.m. PST |
|
dapeters | 14 Sep 2022 11:40 a.m. PST |
Well this news is going to keep some people up at night. |
Parzival ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 14 Sep 2022 2:16 p.m. PST |
Only people ignorant of the US Constitution— and boy, are they gonna be disappointed. Me, I sleep very well. For the record, ANYTHING written down by a US President or his staffers is "classified." If someone makes a note in a staff meeting that says, "Intelligence shows that Iran has not acquired nuclear weapons as yet," that note is classified. But then so is a note stating, "The Secretary of State said that the President of Iran is a poopy-head." What makes it classified in this sense is the conditions in which it was recorded— a meeting with the President—, the individual role of the person who made the statement, and the fact that it involves a foreign head of state. And that it might be embarrassing for the US government if it got out. So it's classified, but so what? Also, any classified information viewed by someone while in office is presumably in his brain, stored in his memory. He has the knowledge, whether the information is ever written down or not. And that information is classified. It is therefore impossible to prevent any person cleared to see different documents, from "possessing" that information once they've viewed the documents. It's in their heads; it cannot be removed, except by death or neural degeneration. Nor can the individual be locked away or disallowed contact with others simply for the information in their heads— at least, not in the US, according to the rules set down in the US Constitution. By the way "classified" is not a term that means anything particular. Instead, it is simply a general overall designation for information and documents which have been graded and marked in some way in terms of sensitivity. Also, some documents may therefore be considered to have what would be designated "classified" information upon examination and processing, but are not so marked as yet (or ever). Thus, the previously mentioned notes are technically covered by some legal and process definition of "classified" merely for the information each contains, whether someone sticks these in a folder and stamps the cover "Secret" or not. So in fact the term "classified" is extremely broad, and is not in and of itself a designation of gross sensitivity or security risk in anything— any more than, say, a transcript of a private conversation between the US President and a foreign leader or dignitary. Unless declassified, that transcript is potentially sensitive and not for distribution either publicly or in private. It may contain no significant statements at all regarding anything involving foreign policy or national security, or may contain statements essentially "just between the governments", but otherwise not really all that Earth-shattering. Doesn't matter- it's a private conversation on foreign policy by the President; therefore, it is "classified." But if the President walks out to a press conference and tells the world what was in the conversation, the information so shared is "declassified" simply by that action. The actual transcript might not be, but at that point that's irrelevant, as the information it holds is now public knowledge via the President's own actions. Thus, it's not the status of being classified or not which matters— it's the actual content, the information itself. Returning to the case of Pelton, what he sold was A Big Deal. It wasn't just classified, it was significant secrets involving national security with regards to Russia. And note that what he sold was the information which was in his head— not in documents. The article doesn't go into details, but the information could have been transmitted simply in a phone call, or written down by Pelton some years after retiring, and delivered in any manner of methods; note that this would make the documents technically "classified" even though not written while under government employ, nor known of by any government agency. |
dapeters | 15 Sep 2022 11:48 a.m. PST |
Parzival you too souvenir or eBay? There are a lot of folks n prison who believe themselves to be lawyers (my apologies if you are actually.) |
Parzival ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 15 Sep 2022 1:52 p.m. PST |
No, but I'm married to one, and we discuss this stuff regularly. In any case, it's logic. It's not the paper or the digital file that's important; it's the information. And yes, "classified" is not itself a classification, except in a very general sense. Technically, all government generated documents, files, records (in any medium) are "classified" in some way, in that they are either open to perusal by anyone or that perusal is limited, going up a long chain of decreasing numbers of people and positions which have the clearance (that is, the authority) to receive said information. That chain ends at the top with the sitting President, no matter who that individual is. The President can access, read, and disseminate the information as he sees fit, with the exclusion of an act of treason or a similar "high crime or misdemeanor." The President holds that authority by reason of election by the people and the States. Period. In fact, Presidents have often produced a "de facto" clearance upgrade of an individual by simply handing a classified document to that individual (as a staffer or advisor) and telling them to read it. *Ding!*— that person's clearance level, with regards to that information, just got changed. FDR was known for having an advisor with no formal government office with whom he would discuss various strategies, revealing military actions and plans to this individual during the height of World War Two. Fortunately, that private citizen was largely responsible with the information, though in many ways it was a grave breach of security on the President's part. Presidents have, in the past, even deliberately handed highly classified materials to foreign leaders for various reasons of policy. Is that always the best approach? No. In fact, most of the time it's probably not. But the judgment lies in the hands of the President, even if other people, including the DoD, the CIA, and the NSA don't like it. The President makes the decision. He can also designate that authority to others, and effectively does— for most intents and purposes, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of Defense, the Director of the CIA, the National Security Advisor, and the like have a similar authority. Sometimes that doesn't work out too well. Past Presidents and their administrations through their carelessness have exposed human assets to capture, torture and execution. (Happened under Bill Clinton, for one, and contributed to our inability to predict the 9/11 attack). But that's part of the risk of having a democratically elected representative republic answerable to the people— sometimes the people elect a person of poor judgment or declining mental capacity. But that's very different from a deliberate act of treason as Pelton committed. Indeed, it's not the same at all. |
Tumbleweed ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 17 Sep 2022 9:51 a.m. PST |
And don't forget those cocktail napkins and wedding invitations. They were also classified. |
Dn Jackson ![Supporting Member of TMP Supporting Member of TMP](boards/icons/sp.gif) | 06 Oct 2022 1:36 a.m. PST |
Patrick Leahy, the senator from Vermont once allowed a reporter to read classified documents in order to have a story printed that would pressure his political opponents in a way favorable to him. Nothing happened to him. |
DJCoaltrain | 22 Oct 2022 8:03 p.m. PST |
Parzival – There are other Classified Security, here's two more – "CNWDI" and "No Forn." |
|