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"New Giant Rat Species Discovered Thanks To Logging!" Topic

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Cacique Caribe27 Sep 2017 11:03 a.m. PST


Wow, so many new species discovered*, on land and sea, in just these last few decades. Many of them rather large too.

* Regular people knew about most of these for years, of course. :)

Winston Smith27 Sep 2017 11:11 a.m. PST

It's kind of like a Reverse Heisenberg.
Or maybe Schroedinger's Rat.
It doesn't exist until a Real Scientist studies it.

Maybe if a scientist observes it, it ceases to exist. That makes sense, if he shoots it to study the body. THAT would be Heisenberg.

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2017 11:18 a.m. PST

If tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to catch the giant rat is it still dead?

Cacique Caribe27 Sep 2017 11:22 a.m. PST


Geez. I need to slow down when I read posts on my tiny phone screen. I was almost about to ask you what a reverse Heimlich maneuver was. Wow.


Cacique Caribe27 Sep 2017 11:24 a.m. PST


Hmm. Maybe Winston is right and so the rat is not dead until a real scientist gets to see the animal and says it is dead. :)


Winston Smith27 Sep 2017 11:36 a.m. PST

"Regular" people are only "natives", don't you know, Old Chap.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2017 12:19 p.m. PST

Insert obvious The Princess Bride quote here.

Cacique Caribe27 Sep 2017 3:26 p.m. PST

Winston, plus whatever loggers, surveyors and techs that frequent those areas and see the exact same things that the other locals are seeing.


altfritz27 Sep 2017 4:01 p.m. PST

Another species that will likely be wiped out "thanks to logging."

Cacique Caribe27 Sep 2017 4:46 p.m. PST

Lol. If the scientists don't declare that something really exists, and discount all the witness testimony and other evidence, can they seriously come back later and say it was wiped out by man?

PS. I love it when these people find one of something and already rush to raise an alarm and declare the new species as endangered. Later they find out that the locals were right all along and the place is absolutely crawling. Gotta love them.

Bowman28 Sep 2017 4:55 a.m. PST

So Winston and Cacique are saying scientists should take the unsubstantiated word of "natives" (your term, not mine) regarding every crypto-zoological story that they hear?

So Yeti, Susquatch, Ogopogo, Nessie and a zillion others should be given the same credence as animals that leave actual physical evidence?

Good to see you have turned this into another 2 minute hate.

I love it when these people find one of something and already rush to raise an alarm and declare the new species as endangered.

The explanation in the linked article is pretty logical and self evident. Reread it.

cfielitz28 Sep 2017 6:23 a.m. PST

Only the media uses the word "discovered." We prefer to use the verb "described" when talking about a new species.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2017 6:25 a.m. PST

Used to play Bridge. One of our foursome was an
entomologist who went into (with an escort, of course)
Pacific islands which were potential targets for
invasion. He and other scientist members of the
team were to collect specimens of insect life and,
if possible, evidence of diseases to take back
for study and to develop ways to protect the troops.

He told some stories about the wildlife he encountered
which we found difficult to believe, but he was after
all a scientist.

Cacique Caribe28 Sep 2017 9:59 a.m. PST


Lol. So on official scientific records and databases the discovery date blank actually says "date first described"? How about when they get some sort of public recognition for it by the scientific community at an event? Does it go something like this: "And we would like to acknowledge Dr. XYZ for his breakthrough first description of such and such"?

PS. I guess they mean described by an outside witness? :)

Winston Smith28 Sep 2017 10:32 a.m. PST

No, Bowman.
I'm saying that their eyewitness reports should not be dismissed out of hand.

One prime example. My brother used to have horses on his land. It's about 60 miles from the nearest border.
One of the horses had to be treated for vicious claw marks that the vet said perfectly matched those of a mountain lion.
"Nonsense." said the State Game Commission. "There are no mountain lions in Pennsylvania."
They dismissed the claw marks and screams that people hear.

Gee. I wonder where Penn State got the nickname "Nittany Lions"?

I remain skeptical of yetis and Sasquatch.

Cacique Caribe28 Sep 2017 11:18 a.m. PST

Lol. We've had problems with jaguars here in TX for several decades, but nothing was ever taken seriously (plaster casts of tracks, dead livestock, eyewitness testimony and even photos by the locals) until recently, when the biologists finally put up their own cameras and immediately started getting their own photos of the big cats.

Then they suddenly got all excited about it and wanted to make us all aware that jaguars had returned our State. Bless their hearts! :)


Bowman28 Sep 2017 6:31 p.m. PST

Winston, nice story. But what does a State Game Commision official have to do wth your comment of, "It doesn't exist until a Real Scientist studies it."?

You keep telling us you took science. Didn't you learn that anecdotal evidence is the weakest type of evidence?

Cacique Caribe28 Sep 2017 7:32 p.m. PST

Bowman: "Didn't you learn that anecdotal evidence is the weakest type of evidence?"

But, but …didn't you just call it evidence? :)


Dan Wideman II28 Sep 2017 10:16 p.m. PST

CC and WInston, same thing here in WI. People in rural areas talked about seeing evidence of Mountain Lions for ten or more years including casts of tracks, predation evidence etc, but the DNR denied it until they started appearing on Department cameras.

Bowman, it's not so much about taking all anecdotal evidence as fact, but there is a modicum of "not made here" even for physical evidence among the naturalist community.

Winston Smith28 Sep 2017 11:09 p.m. PST

Bowman, chill.
I'm making Heisenberg and Schrodinger jokes.
What I SHOULD have said was that the species disappears as soon as it's studied.
YouTube link

You're sounding like someone is making fun of your religion.

Bowman29 Sep 2017 8:03 a.m. PST

Bowman, chill.

Thanks for the concern. I am chill.

I'm making Heisenberg and Schrodinger jokes.

I know and I did enjoy them.

You're sounding like someone is making fun of your religion.

I doubt that. I just think you're painting Science and scientists with a very broad brush based on someone else's experience with one member of the State Game Commission.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP30 Sep 2017 10:38 a.m. PST

Not to worry, this will all go away after the rats are either cooked by global warming or drowned by rising sea levels. After all, "scientists" say so. grin

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