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"If in the multiverse all universes are possible..." Topic


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422 hits since 21 Nov 2016
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
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Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2016 10:19 a.m. PST

…doesn't that mean that there is a universe where no other universes exist?

evil grin

Buff Orpington Inactive Member21 Nov 2016 10:26 a.m. PST

More likely than finding one where Russell Brand is funny.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2016 10:56 a.m. PST

Sounds like an ontological question to me.
From Philosophy 101: "Hey Father. What if…."

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member21 Nov 2016 11:49 a.m. PST

That's all well and good, but what happens in a Reverse? Do you get a Yroeht Gnab Gib?

gladue21 Nov 2016 2:17 p.m. PST

Presuming the multiverse hypothesis is true then all *possible* universes are possible, impossible ones are not. Even then it doesn't mean that all possible universes *exist*.

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2016 4:04 p.m. PST

If an infinite number of universes are possible, than those which do not exist are possible.

It was asserted to me in college that in our universe, universal constants are universally the same. I always wondered how "they" knew that.
This the Cosmological Principle, that the universe is homogeneous and isotopic.
Well, every new published 3D map of the universe shows that it's "lumpy".
So, if it's lumpy, is it also isotopic? Is the gravitational constant really constant?
I will let those more knowledgeable, or better at bullBleeped text than I am, argue this out. grin

You can get into a real weed and Doritos argument about the Anthropic Principle too.

GarrisonMiniatures Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member21 Nov 2016 11:49 p.m. PST

Yes, it would be possible – a 'multi-dimensional super universe' that contains all the other universes would fit – though it may mean redefining those other universes!

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2016 5:23 a.m. PST

That's isotropic above. I hate when my cell thinks it's smarter than me.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2016 11:26 a.m. PST

It means that, somewhere, I'm married to Heidi Klum and both of her twin sisters.

Personal logo Great War Ace Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2016 8:02 a.m. PST

Knowing too many philosophical terms can be paralyzing. I am not paralyzed. A native, imaginative bent is freed to pursue all possibilities.

Here's my simple take on existence:

My existence is inarguable.

My imagination seems to be effectively infinite.

My brain is inarguably finite, both in size, capacity and duration.

When my brain dies, the universe will continue, ergo a greater existence than my finite brain (housing its effectively infinite imagination) preceded my advent and will "survive" my demise.

Therefore I conclude that anything I can imagine with this finite brain is transcended by that other, greater, infinite Existence of which I am temporarily a part.

The Infinite Existence transcends our universe's spacetime.

The corollary to this fact is that spacetime is merely a part of the construct that defines the existence I am part of.

In an infinite or eternal schematic there is no restriction to imagination, because there is no time limit on its fulfillment.

Therefore Kim Kardashian and I have had wild sex, both as man and wife and as a casual collision.

Your "brand" may vary, but all imagined chatter has a place in "reality", somehow, sometime, somewhere. We cannot imagine the impossible…………………

nazrat23 Nov 2016 11:18 a.m. PST

"Therefore Kim Kardashian and I have had wild sex, both as man and wife and as a casual collision."

So, GW, you both do and do not have a venereal disease, right? 8)=

Charlie 1223 Nov 2016 8:40 p.m. PST

The Infinite Existence transcends our universe's spacetime.

And now we enter major WOO…..

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2016 10:14 p.m. PST

So, GW, you both do and do not have a venereal disease, right? 8)=

Is that Schrodinger's Clap?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP23 Nov 2016 10:17 p.m. PST

My existence is inarguable.

Although to you it is, to me it isn't.
You'll have to do better than that, M desCartes.

nazrat24 Nov 2016 6:54 a.m. PST

Damn, that was a true LOL, John. Great one!!

The Tin Dictator24 Nov 2016 7:07 a.m. PST

It means that, somewhere, I'm married to Heidi Klum and both of her twin sisters.

No, all it means is that in a universe with unlimited and infinite possibilities, some things are still impossible.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2016 8:16 a.m. PST

…….…doesn't that mean that there is a universe where no other universes exist?

I think so. In fact, I think we're in it right now.

Personal logo Great War Ace Supporting Member of TMP24 Nov 2016 12:26 p.m. PST

So, GW, you both do and do not have a venereal disease, right? 8)=

Yes. I do not in this one. But considering the infinitely generated others inclusive in the multiverse as a whole: you said it, so it happens. Even if we phrase with words apparently impossible connections and conditions, there is no such thing as "impossible" to the Infinite Mind. A finite mind cannot fathom how such things are possible. We can only apprehend the concept: "nothing is impossible".

To assume that at a given place and time, such as the world of humans is (the perceivable universe), anything is possible, isn't assuming an untruth: but it is no basis for making rational decisions.

I tried this once (what boy in the 50s did not?): I tied on a cape and jumped off the garage roof, having real faith that I could fly. I did this over a thick pile of grass and other flora clippings and deposited stuff. So I did not seriously hurt myself. In another universe, my imaginative attempt would have been graced with success: "there", I can fly. I've done it in my dreams countless times. But here it tends to not work out, so believing that it will and trying again, is the definition of insanity. What is insane here is purest fulfillment and sanity "there"…………….

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP27 Nov 2016 7:40 a.m. PST

I think most of you have a "Star Trek" concept of the multiverse.

First off, some seem to think that they personally will exist in all these universes. In one, we are all Romans, in another, we are all having sex with the Kardashians, and in another, GWA's musings are understandable by all.

The interesting thing about possible multiverse is that each universe will be a different entity, with it's own laws of physics.

In one, the expansion from the Big Bang was more inflated and the sub-atomic particles would only form hydrogen and helium. No greater elements would ever form.

In the next, gravity is much weaker, again only allowing formation of the smallest elements, hydrogen and helium.

In the next, gravity is much stronger allowing for a Big Crunch, where all matter collapses in on itself. Again, nothing of importance will be allowed to ever form as the universe is an endless cycle of inflation and contraction.

In some, the angular momentum of electrons flying about the nuclei of all matter is much less, causing them to crash into the nuclei they orbit. Again matter would not exist as it does in ours.

In some, the laws of physics may not be uniform throughout the entire universe. God knows what that would mean to matter and existence.

There are literally thousands of other considerations for other universes. While not as fun, they warrant consideration more so than which Kardashian we'll all be bonking.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP27 Nov 2016 7:44 a.m. PST

I tried this once (what boy in the 50s did not?): I tied on a cape and jumped off the garage roof, having real faith that I could fly. I did this over a thick pile of grass and other flora clippings and deposited stuff. So I did not seriously hurt myself.

Not to appear argumentative, but it seems you were too intelligent to have "real faith" that you could fly. That's why you placed the protective material in the first place.

Garand01 Dec 2016 11:43 a.m. PST

I think most people have a "Star Trek" approach to the multiverse because that perspective is personally relevant. A universe that failed to form matter after their Big Bang is not relevant to the human condition. So while we can acknowledged that such a universe might exist, its not really helpful or interesting to speculate about. Further, slight changes in the Laws of Physics could potentially allow things like FREX the ability to fly. Finally if the number of universes is in fact infinite (something that cannot be proven with current technology, so remains purely speculative), then a universe resembling either the Star Wars or Star Trek universes (or 40K for that matter!) must in fact exist (or, rather to be more precise, the possibility of these universes existing approaches 1). That also means that there is a universe where I never broke up with my 1st girlfriend, and perhaps I might have been happier (or perhaps not!)

Also when considering alternate universes, I think a difference must be made as to whether those universes came about due to their own "big bangs" (i.e. they're on different "branes") or whether that universe came about due to a branching timeline -- the universe still exists within our "brane" but is a branching timeline from our own (I think this is what most people are thinking about when they talk about the "Star Trek" perception of alternate universes). So the laws of physics would be identical to our own, but the timelines simply branched.

Damon.

Personal logo Great War Ace Supporting Member of TMP02 Dec 2016 2:22 p.m. PST

There are literally thousands of other considerations for other universes.

Infinitely more considerations.

And "laws of physics" only apply as observed. A given lifetime of a few thousand generations would "cement" them as facts. The reality is infinitely more and less than the laws as observed. "Nature finds a way" probably means that no universe is pointless, i.e. boring and without sapience to observe and enjoy it. What would be the point?

So, no pointless universes in the multiverse. Even those examples where no point of their existence is evident, they would form, at the least, an object lesson about how to do it wrong, "it" being creation, or virtual reality, to the mind that always Is…………..

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP03 Dec 2016 4:33 p.m. PST

And "laws of physics" only apply as observed.

No idea what you mean. I'm pretty sure the laws of physics apply even in situations where no one is there to observe things. How do the "laws of physics" apply when unobserved?

"Nature finds a way" probably means that no universe is pointless, i.e. boring and without sapience to observe and enjoy it. What would be the point?

Why would you suppose there should be one? The atomic weight of boron is 10 and that of carbon is 12. What's the "point" of that?

So, no pointless universes in the multiverse.

Proclaiming something as true doesn't make it so.

Even those examples where no point of their existence is evident, they would form, at the least, an object lesson about how to do it wrong, "it" being creation, or virtual reality, to the mind that always Is…………..

You know, your ideas are difficult enough to follow even when you complete your sentences. Just saying……….

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