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"National Anthem" Topic

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509 hits since 28 Sep 2016
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Comments or corrections?

Mardaddy Inactive Member28 Sep 2016 7:47 a.m. PST

WARNING Try not to get political.


My only observation is -- so the day before this occurred and every day of her service up until THAT day she was fine with the National Anthem and her requirements under the UCMJ regarding that subject, but now she suddenly has a crisis of conscience?

Or is she jumping on some coat tails, a joiner looking for her share of noteriety?

Winston Smith Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2016 7:53 a.m. PST

It's kind of a job requirement, isn't it?
When you join the military, you assume duties not required of civilians.
With Kaepernick (who is collecting $19 USD million as a second string quarterback this year) followers, I just shake my head.
But this is the military. She should know better. As a petty officer she should know better even more.

VCarter Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2016 8:15 a.m. PST

If it is repeated after counseling, then it seems like grounds for a dishonorable discharge.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2016 8:55 a.m. PST

In this case it appears her job specification says she'll look at the flag and salute…so she's broken her terms of employment.

And she'll have signed on for military discipline…

Normally I'd say it's her right to choose…in this case she willingly signed that right away.

Private Matter28 Sep 2016 9:34 a.m. PST

I agree with 20thmaine. Military is held to a different standard than the civilian world.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP28 Sep 2016 11:57 a.m. PST

Ditto. Make an example of her.

Private Matter28 Sep 2016 12:11 p.m. PST

I don't making an example of her would be in the best interest of the military. Just enforce the existing rules under the UCMJ and that is all. I would recommend that the Army do it in as matter-of-fact manner as possible to demonstrate equal enforcement of the UCMJ.

Zargon Inactive Member28 Sep 2016 12:11 p.m. PST

Well what the heck is Administrative discipline?

Private Matter28 Sep 2016 12:26 p.m. PST

Administrative discipline is short of a court martial and can take the form of a Page 11 entry and/or Captain's Mast as we called them in the Marines. Punishment can take the form of forfeiture of pay within limits to "extra duties." They can be a career killer as it takes a lot to overcome something like that in your record.

Who asked this joker28 Sep 2016 12:57 p.m. PST

You know, I've explained to others "why" I don't like this sort of protest and I'll explain it here. When you go to an international game, you stand for a national anthem, ANY national anthem. If the Chinese soccer team came to town, you would stand for their national anthem, not because you are showing some sort of allegiance, but out of respect. Same goes for your OWN national anthem. You do it out of respect and nothing else. If you have a particular problem, find a way to protest but don't be a d-bag about it.

I think in the military, it goes doubly so since you are serving the country which you protest. Maybe you shouldn't serve.

Private Matter29 Sep 2016 3:50 a.m. PST

This may be a bit off but I personally feel that people who serve or have served in the military often times have more right to protest perceived injustice. The only requirement that I maintain is that it be done in accordance with proper adherence to military protocol. Had this sailor not been in uniform then I would fully support her taking a knee or whatever during the national anthem but as she was in uniform she violated military protocols and that needs to be address appropriately. I really shake my head at people who get all bent out of shape over protests such as this while espousing some form of patriotic love-it-or-leave-it fervor but have never take the oath to "defend the constitution form all enemies, both foreign and domestic." I find that many times the most fervent are also the ones come up with the lamest excuses for not serving. "I wanted to go to Vietnam but I had chronic ingrown toenails" or some other bs malady. The flag is a symbol, nothing more. The rights enshrined in the constitution on the other hand are everything and need to be respected by all and reserved for all.

To clarify, my comment here is not a jab at any of the posters on this thread (so far) but merely a statement in general. I don't agree with these protests of sitting during the anthem but I respect the rights of the individual to conduct the protest. On a side note; can anyone tell me why we (the general public) dont't get upset when people (and the athletes) talk, spit, fidget, scratch their balls, whatever, etc. during the anthem? Isn't that disrespectful?

Mardaddy Inactive Member29 Sep 2016 12:14 p.m. PST

They can be a career killer as it takes a lot to overcome something like that in your record.

She is already a Second Class Petty Officer (paygrade E-5.) Unless things have changes in the USN since 2004, you can retire at 20 with that rank/paygrade.

It all depends on where she is vis--vis the magic 20 years and her current contract. If her still has time left on her contract taking her to that 20, she could retire, pension intact.

If she still needs to re-up to make the 20 year mark, then it is up to her CO at that time and whether or not he/she would recommend her for reenlistment with that on her record.

Guarantee she'll make a fuss (Request Mast) if she is not recommended for that reason, and unless the Navy has gone "zero-defect," they will have to bend and OK the reenlistment.

Meaning unless every sailor who has received Administrative Action/Discipline has not been recommended for reenlistment during that current contract, she conceivably has a case and could win. Would not put it past her going public for the bad press in an attempt to "shame" the command like she is attempting to "shame" what the Anthem stand for right now.

I would HOPE it would be a career killer, but I would never bet any amount of money on it.

Private Matter29 Sep 2016 12:53 p.m. PST

Currently both the Navy and Marines are NCO heavy and my daughter who was Army is telling me that her friends in the army are saying the same thing. E-5s and above who aren't making promotions are being quietly refused reenlistment opportunities. With the draw down in force numbers it's an up or out environment and unless she's in something like cybersecurity or intelligence cutting scores are high across all branches of the military.
(I live in a military community and promotion opportunities are always a backyard bbq & beer discussion. Only three houses on my street of 24 house are not owned by either active-duty, retired or former Marines or Navy).

P.s. Semper Fi Mardaddy

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