"Silly armor in game of thrones." Topic

So watching Games of thrones I have to say most of those armors are quite useless. Even the plate armors seems to be badly desgined with huge openings under the arms ect. And whats with the northeneris dressed like fantasy vikings.

Even with the badly desgined plate armor the southerners would have a huge tactical advantage over the leather clad northerners.

Oh and they also seem to mix in some clearly renesance style armor and helmets.

You realize it's a Fantasy series?

I would rather wear silly armor than no armor.

As for mixing Renaissance armor with earlier, this is a fantasy series where there is little societal evolution of any kind. Much like LOTR, in fact.
The Wall is HOW many thousand years old???
Jon Snow is the 998th Lord Commander, or some number like that.

So a wealthy fighter buys whatever style of armor is popular in his region and he can afford.
I agree that the City Watch looks very Italian Renaissance. And the hill tribes look like a WFB Chaos army. Very wargamish. Worse crimes have been committed on the silver screen.

If you want to complain about "silly", go after the Lannister minions' helmets.

I have already said my piece about GoT heraldry.

So what if it's fantasy. Thats no exucse for using non wokring or badly working armor, just because it's fantasy? the basics of armor and protection dosn't count? they are not humans, with same basic body plan, with same body parts needing protection?

What specific pieces of armor do you see as "wrong"?

Even real historical armor can be a little silly. Polish Winged Hussars come to mind…

Most of them are non functuing.

Sure a cuirass is a cuirass and works, but most of the arm armor, legg armor ect, is useless. the leather armor is just random leather sown togeater to look "cool" with no thought of protection.

Yes the wings of the polish hussars are stilly(but might have a moral effect on the enemy and so might actualy be usefull)

But the rest of the armor actualy does protect the rider.

this from the show

compared to this copy of an 8th cen armor:

Its the way armor was made sir.

1. he is using a cerimonial armor, his combat armor is more of generals used during the 30 year war.
2. his armor is totaly useless, more sci fi then medieval.
3. armor in lower picture is not 8th centry. the legs seems to be any late medeival period, the chest and arm things, I have not seen any thing like, seems like semi fantasy armor, that ir its not complete, that armor would give very little protection, his armpits, parts of his chest, kneck, inside his armes, stomach ect.

A good old fasion mail armor would give much better protection.

Look again, see the rivets in the cloth section?

It's a steel breastplate added to a coat with internal plates, which means the red parts are armored and the shiny parts are MORE armored…

Gunfreak, don't you have anything else to get hugely overexcited about? :)

I see buttons not rivets.

Also still not the same as the picture over, were he seems to be wearing something from the 1982 hitchhickers guide to the galaxy.

Gunfreak, don't you have anything else to get hugely overexcited about? :)

No I don't it's anoyed me these past few weeks watching the series, now my girlfirend is working late, I'm bored and cold. This is exactly what I want to get overexcited about.

This is exactly what I want to get overexcited about.

That's the spirit!

THIS!
IS!
TMP!

well it is 8th cen and it is missing the mail shirt, there is also a Gorget and Gauntlets missing from it.

full coverage plate armor did not turn up till after the 12 cen

like this

you might want more books on armor. :)

Nobody had plate armor like that in tge 8th century.
That looks like half of an armor from the late 14th century.
and the latest picture is probably early 15th century.

During the 8th most had no armor, a lucky few had mail. Nobody had a plate curias like that, or plate legs like that.

What is the point in complaining that the armor in a tv show is anachronistic with medieval European armor when it has absolutely nothing to do with Earth?

Why are the seasons so variable? It has nothing to do with science. It's magic.
Why is Valyrian steel so awesome? No explanation given. Probably magic.
Why are the dragons in GoT so hugely awesome when I have seen pictures of St George lancing something the size of a golden retriever? Why aren't Earth dragons the same size as Essos dragons?
Hodor?

Earth dragons are easy. Wait. That's Earth girls.

It is known.

It is known.

Winter. It's coming. Except in Buffalo, where it's here.

("Come for the wings. Stay because you can't find your car."

Someone's going to be disappointed when he learns they don't reanimate the dead in a plausible manner.

Hodor!

Sorry Ron W DuBray, Gunfreak is right. That arm and leg armor is 14th at the earliest. Pretty much the same on the breast and back.

link

Body Armor

The coat of plates is a type of body armor comprised of overlapping plates riveted mainly to the inside of either a leather or fabric shell but sometimes also attached to the outside is the staple of 14th century body armor. This type of armor was low cost to produce and still is and was used throughout the entire century, which is something to be said considering the constant flux of armor in this century.

Chainmaille was also used throughout the century but started at nearly knee length with long sleeves and mufflers (mittens) and shortened to that similar to a modern day t-shirt. It was worn under virtually any other type of body armor and sometimes overtop.

By 1340 the breastplate came into existence in the form of a short plate defence covering the upper chest. This developed into the full breastplate we now associate with a knight in shining armor including a fauld (skirt made of overlapping horizontal bands) by 1370.

The brigandine also came into being during the 14th century by around 1370. Similar to the coat of plates a brigandine was comprised of much smaller overlapping plates with larger plates to cover the lungs and heart attached to the inside of a canvas shell usually covered in a fine material such as silk velvet.
Arm Armor

The 14th century also saw the beginning of the plate arm defence. The first appearance being around 1320 and taking the form of gutter shaped pieces directly attached to the chainmaille as well as besegews (circular disks at armpits). The besegews continued to be used until around 1360 but would later re-appear in the 15th century. The maille mufflers disappeared by 1330 and were replaced by either simple gloves or gauntlets similar in construction to a brigandine. By 1340 the hourglass gauntlet had been developed consisting of an hourglass shaped piece of metal covering the back of the hand and wrist and small overlapping plates covering the fingers.
Leg Armor

Leg armor kicked off the century with the chainmaille cuisses (leggings) with plate poleyns (one piece knees) that were seen throughout the 13th century. But by 1310 we see the advent of a plate greave or shin covering as well as splinted leather. By 1340 we see plate cuisses (thigh armor) and the sabayon (plate shoe of overlapping articulated plates). These were often accompanied with the poleyn and each piece was laced to the underlying gamboised cuisse (padded legging) or attached to each other with leather straps.

By 1370 we see the development of the shell articulated (overlapping plates attached to each other by rivets) as well as the fan on the poleyn which covers the tendons at the back of the knee. By 1375 the wrap plate was developed on the cuisse which was a plate attached either by leather or hinges to the outside of the thigh and wrapping around the back of the leg.

Gun's right about the buttons vs rivets as well. That is a gambeson not a brigandine.

As to the OP, armor for proper protection of a human body, even in the Game of Thrones world, should still have all of the basic elements. For adequate protection 'form will follow function' – parade armor is an exception and was rarely used in actual combat.

And on a lighter note…

YouTube link

BTW, why does Warhammer Latin suck?

That arm and leg armor is 14th at the earliest.

Which is totally and completely irrelevant.
This is not a documentary on Medieval combat in Europe.
It is ….
Oh, I give up.

Hint, guys. We are not putting up with chain mail bikinis.

But I kinda like watching certain people in chainmail bikinis….

What is the point in complaining that the armor in a tv show is anachronistic with medieval European armor when it has absolutely nothing to do with Earth?

Again, as goragrad said, they are human, human bodies, same strength and weaknesses. Why would they use heavy expencive armor that dos not give any real protection. Are you saying they are incapable of making good armor? are all armoroers in Westoros really just tv costume desginers, with no knowlage of from and function?

Someone's going to be disappointed when he learns they don't reanimate the dead in a plausible manner.

Stawman, you can have supernatural parts in a fantasy world, but it has not shown that regular humans are any diffrent from us, therefore they would need to protect the same parts we need to protect. It's about creating a realistic looking world, not a silly live action roleplay fantasy with soft core porn in it.

So don't watch it if it bothers you so much. Problem solved.

Manly John; that band is a little different!

Sorry John, that comment was with respect to the picture posted as being an 8th century harness.

The GOT armor is another story…

P.S. Gun while not '8th century' the components of that armor are all valid reproductions of actual armor. Put a mail hauberk underneath and you have a decent harness.

Add a fauld to the breastplate and the gorget that Ron noted as being missing and it works that way – although as noted in the quoted piece mail was worn under nearly all other armor.

The pieces might be valid by them self. But not in that configuration. Again, looks like live action roleplay.

I would have no problem, if it had mail or more plate. But as is. Its useless.

Well, if they are making such lousy armor, how do you now they're not making useless weapons?

I've not seen Game of Thrones so won't comment on the armour.

However. The guy in the photo wearing red is definitely not wearing 8th Century armour. Elements of later 14th Century, maybe.

Ron W is right in his next picture about full plate not turning up until after the 12th Century. But it was quite a long time after the 12th Century. About 300 years after!

I don't know what books about armour he has been reading but it might be helpful if he tells us so we can all avoid them!

Mail started to get plate reenforcments in early 14th century. for the next 100 years more plate were added and less mail. Only by late 100 years war and then war of the roses did total full plate apear.

Just a couple of quick notes:

Ron W DuBray's picture is of a set of jousting armor. The relationship of jousting to mounted combat is analogous to the relationship of NASCAR to running moonshine. One is intended for entertainment and has a lot more safety equipment than the other.

The "guy in the photo wearing red" is Christian Tobler, one of the leading researchers and authors in the Western Martial Arts community. I have met and worked with Christian on German longsword techniques, and I do not doubt that he has done far more research on the subject of medieval armor than any of us here. If he is wearing it as bouting harness, it is as historically correct as you can find these days.

The gambeson is part of the armor system. Joints are less protected because they need to be so that you can move.

BTW, why does Warhammer Latin suck?

Because they are trying to sound intellectual while still retaining the uniqueness of made up proper names which are reasonably easy to trademark, unlike actual Latin phrases.

Tachikoma. That is fair enough. It is the dates that Ron W gave that are the issue, I think!

How many Dukes of Burgundy died in battle because of bad fitting armor or because they couldn't be bothered to wear a complete set? More than one!

My main complaint with GoT armor is how the main actors don't bother to wear helmets.

OFM: "Hodor"

Priceless.

Dan

Silly… more or less everything… in Game of Thrones.
-Kle.