"Ebola" Topic

Coming soon to an airport near you….

Well, I guess I can finally be grateful for the laughable local authority decisions that mean I live in the largest city in the UK not to have an airport….

[Yes, I'm deliberately avoiding a serious response, because frankly there are no really appropriate words for scary like that – absolutely horrific thing, and truly terrible for those affected. :-( ]

After it reaches the US, I wonder what peoples view of a secure boarder will be?

I forget the movie that recently came out about a disease from China that wipes out 10% of the world's population. Changed all of society.

Don't know if this reassures or not?

link

It's not an airborne contagion, so the risk is somewhat contained. You wouldn't catch it simply by sharing a plane ride with someone, or being near them. You'd actually have to make contact with their body fluids, and then transfer that into your own body through either a cut or scratch or an orifice as the nose, eyes or mouth. Still, it can happen, but most of the spread involves people in daily direct contact with an infected individual, as family members and health care workers. So, while scary, it's not the pandemic risk that a strain of flu or TB might be. The scary things about Ebola are its lethality and the incubation period, which is rather lengthy in terms of significant symptoms in the early stages. (Which is why it's so dangerous to family members, as the steps to protect oneself from the disease may not begun to be taken until long after the infection has spread to them.)

Yep, it's not very transmittable, although it's not completely understood either – however thorough your precautions though, it's easy to make one fatal slip, which is all that er needs. Hence one of the victims this time being a leading ebola doctor, sadly.

The government shipped the first case into the US on Friday. how dumb was that??

Its very transmittable. Spit or blood contact will spread it. so all it takes is a sneeze or a cough from someone who has it to expose everyone in a room or aircraft.

There's a galaxy of difference between a patient deliberately flown in under controlled quarantine conditions and some unknown carrier on a commercial flight. This case is not a risk to the public at large, so your concerns are overblown.

Now all we need are the intelligent apes.

Really Parzival when did transport in planes and cars become 100% safe?? I have seen 4 ambulances wrecked on the way to ERs just this year..

Oh good grief. What's the difference between a dedicated emergency aircraft and an ambulance? Better yet, tell me what's *not* a difference between the two? Because they are *nothing* like each other, except for the "medical" side of things. So now your big concern is that one plane (which has already completed its part of the deal) is going to crash, and that's going to spread the direct-contact-only disease of Ebola to… to… to… uh, whomever would run into the fiery, burning wreckage in their street clothes and pick up the guy, and then go running off to mix with the general populace, shaking bloody hands with everyone…
Please. Thar's just nonsense.

1.) Ebola is NOT an airborne disease, and isn't going to mutate into one overnight, if at all, certainly not in one patient. That's Hollywood thriller "science," not real science.

2.) Ebola, while nasty and nastier in a third world region like West Africa, is hardly untreatable or difficult to contain in a first world health care facility. Frankly, it's one of the easier viruses to contain, if you have the infrastructure and technology to do so. No, struggling African states don't have that (but note that it's hardly an epidemic there, either, just a nasty outbreak), but we do. Heck, nature contains the damn thing pretty well on its own, because it's such limited virus to begin with. Basic chemistry clobbers it outside of the body, and you have to make direct contact with body fluids to get it. It ain't going anywhere short of gross incompetence by the folks at the CDC and Emory.

So stop with the Stephen King scenarios and come back to the real world. We need to pray for this young doctor and watch his progress. Heck, having him here under treatment may be the key to curing the thing outright for everyone.

If you want to be scared of a pandemic, an influenza or TB strain is the scary beast, not the limited bogeyman of Ebola.

Well said.

spit sweat and blood become air born for a time when a person with it sneezes or coughs. Just so you know.

link

Ebola is not transmitted through the air. Stop spreading FUD. Just so you know.

right it is fluid transmitted just like colds and flu and the fluids from a persons sneezes or coughs has a 10 foot plus range. Ask any Doctor. That is why people are taught to cover their mouth with their sleeve or a cloth. there is a reason why doctors that are dealing with people that might have this are dressed in these.

The global death toll of influenza is several hundred thousand a year.

This particular ebola outbreak has crossed what? A thousand?

Ron DuBray is correct……..sort of.

There are no absolutes in medical science. Yes, blood, spit and mucus is released in a cough or a sneeze. But there are many other factors that need to be present before Ebola can be considered an air borne infection.

What is the concentration of Ebola in the saliva or blood in an infected individual, healthy enough to be walking around sneezing and coughing on people? What is the likelihood of Ebola crossing a healthy skin barrier? What is the concentration of Ebola entering through a cut or through the mucosa necessary to cause infection in a healthy individual?

While Ron is technically correct, it doesn't seem that Ebola is caught as easily as say, the common cold. As far as the above picture goes, those people are not dressed that way because someone may sneeze on them. They are dressed that way because they are most likely dealing with and disinfecting cadavers.

The global death toll of influenza is several hundred thousand a year.

This particular ebola outbreak has crossed what? A thousand?

So it's a numbers game?

Let me illustrate the problem by looking at that hell hole known as Sierra Leone. Out of the 108 countries that make up the Human Poverty Index they rank 102. Out of the 177 countries that make up the Human Development Index, they rank 177. They have the highest infant mortality rate in the world and one of the highest maternal death rates. 50% of hospital visits are due to malaria. Malaria kills 25% of young people. 

Another 27% of hospital visits are for Acute Respiratory infections. Dysentery and Cholera are rampant. Sierra Leone is part of the Sub-Sahara equatorial countries. WHO estimates that almost 80% of all HIV/AIDS cases exist in these countries. 1.5% of the population are sero-prevalent. Add to that increasing levels of TB, Lassa fever, hypertension, diabetes and mental illness. Social problems include an almost non existent effective health care system, poor sanitation, little potable drinking water, poor infrastructure and a rising drug abuse problem.

Ebola is just the icing on the cake for those living in one of the poorest countries in the world. The country is woefully inadequate for handling an outbreak of this magnitude. As of yesterday, WHO stated that the outbreak is still gathering steam and that the worst is not over.

Yes, influenza is still the reigning champ when it comes to killing human beings. I'm sure that Sierra Leone's contribution to the global influenza death toll, on a per capita basis, is much higher than that of the countries that we are lucky to live in.

Just to keep this in perspective, the populations of the hardest hit sub-Sahara countries is about 20.4 million people. (that's Sierra Leone 6 mil, Guinea 10 mil, and Liberia 4.4 mil)

The estimated deaths from Malaria are about 627,000 people per year! 90% are estimated in these 3 countries. If we scaled that number up to the population of the United States we would have just about 9,000,000 deaths per year.

Therefore the deaths from just malaria in these 3 countries is 3-4 times the combined death rate in the US, from all sources.

Even in nations with virtually no health systems, this disease is only fatal around half the time.

No need to panic, if it got here, we could handle it.

Wow, that's cold.

Ya, the fatality rate is "only" 58% with the rate of infection growing exponentially. No need for concern.

Since it was discovered, fewer people have died of Ebola than died of gunshot injuries in the USA in 2013.

It would of course help if front-line medical staff were informed that Ebola might be a problem and hence not send someone with flu-like symptoms from West Africa home with entirely useless antibiotics, but even so….

Ebola… it's nothing to sneeze at!

If I had a nose full of Ebola, I'd sneeze some achoo.

Since it was discovered, fewer people have died of Ebola than died of gunshot injuries in the USA in 2013.

Argument by false equivalency.

The sub-Saharan countries affected have a combined population equivalent to New York state. When the Ebola outbreak has fully run its course, let's compare their death rates to those of gun related deaths in New York, shall we? As of now, the infection rate is still increasing.

New York State death rate from guns is 5.1 per 100,000 people. At just under 20 million inhabitants, that makes just over 1000 people.

According to the CDC, today's confirmed infected population with Ebola is 6574, and the Ebola death rate stands at 3091.

Numbers, of course, dont tell the whole atory. Have you seen the social impact that Ebola has created in these destitute countries? Again, a total disconnect in comparing the situation in Africa with US gun deaths.

The incubation period of this strain causes concern. Twenty-one days is a very long time. One could become infected, travel and infect a large number of people without anyone knowing.

During his press conference Tuesday, the Director of the CDC stated repeatedly that the disease was not contagious until late in the incubation period. But that can be a matter of interpretation. Do you have to wait for obvious symptoms like a patient vomiting or trickling blood from his nose, or would a headache and fever suffice to cause concern?

Why did the index patient in Dallas go to the hospital in the first place? He wasn't in the advanced stages at that time, but we can surmise that he probably had a really bad headache, fever and weakness. He exhibited symptoms but was told to go home. From that point on I believe he was contagious.

I don't blame the index patient one bit for his desire to come to the United States. If I were an African man and sick with Ebola, I wouldn't tell anyone either. To do so is to court near-certain death because ultimately they will tag you and bag you. He probably had a bad headache and fever before he ever got on the plane. Why else would he suddenly get up and leave his home? I don't believe the CDC Director's claim that one cannot be contagious until the later stages of the disease. How much later? At the point of the first headaches and fever, or the ultimate crashing and bleeding out?
And another thing. I don't believe for a moment that we are being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. There are serious political factors and motivations that screen us from knowing what is really going on.
For those of you who do not believe this strain and outbreak of Ebola is a concern, go back to the first days it was reported in the back issues of the newspapers and websites, then follow the course of the disease to the present.
Campaigns to reassure the public will increase the magnitude and human cost of this outbreak. The only thing we have to fear is a lack of fear.

And another thing. I don't believe for a moment that we are being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. There are serious political factors and motivations that screen us from knowing what is really going on.

Such as?

Why the tin foil hat time? A newly discovered virulent strain of a virus is causing great anguish amongst the three poorest nations in the world. One political factor of my country is sending a newly developed experimental vaccine into the area. I would assume the motivation is humanitarian. Unless you know something to the contrary.

For those of you who do not believe this strain and outbreak of Ebola is a concern, go back to the first days it was reported in the back issues of the newspapers and websites, then follow the course of the disease to the present.

Ebola outbreaks have occurred since 1976 when the virus was first discovered. How would the newspapers and news organization have known of this virulent stain, early in the outbreak? This current strain has killed more than all the other outbreaks put together. Viruses are like that. I'm not sure people don't think it's a concern. From the CDC:

link

Campaigns to reassure the public will increase the magnitude and human cost of this outbreak.

Huh?

Bowman, please listen to yourself:

"A newly discovered virulent strain of a virus is causing great anguish amongst the three poorest nations in the world."

"This current strain has killed more than all the other outbreaks put together."

"As of yesterday, WHO stated that the outbreak is still gathering steam and that the worst is not over."

"the fatality rate is "only" 58% with the rate of infection growing exponentially."

Now please explain to me what you meant by "Why the tin foil hat time."

With reference to the photo above, you said:

"They are dressed that way because they are most likely dealing with and disinfecting cadavers." – Oh, so I guess the NBC cameraman who recently caught Ebola in Africa was dealing with and disinfecting cadavers?

Do you see how easy it is for one to take someone's statements out of context?

The media and too many others have created the impression that the reason so many people have contracted Ebola in Africa is because of their hands-on approach to death and burial in the family. One is led to conjure the image of a grieving family member throwing themselves onto the dead body of another and covering their hands with blood that is hot with Ebola. Although that has certainly happened in far too many cases, the reasons for the spread of this strain are not always so obvious. Although it is not yet airborne, there are many other ways to catch it. For example, you could place your hand on a victim's forehead to see if they are feverish, then rub your own hot, tired eyes.

Campaigns to reassure the public will increase the magnitude and human cost of this outbreak because it will give them a false sense of security and make them believe that all they have to do is relax and do nothing.

From the New York Times on 10/3/2014:

"Ebola spreads through direct contact with body fluids. If an infected person's blood or vomit gets in another person's eyes, nose or mouth, the virus may be transmitted. Ebola does not invade through healthy skin, but skin must be sanitized after potential contact to avoid spreading the virus by touch. Although Ebola does not cause respiratory problems, a cough from a sick person could infect someone who has been sprayed with saliva. Because of that, being within three feet of a patient for a prolonged time without protective clothing is considered to be direct contact.

The virus can survive for several hours on surfaces, so any object contaminated with bodily fluids, like a latex glove or a hypodermic needle, may spread the disease. According to the C.D.C., the virus can survive for a few hours on dry surfaces like doorknobs and countertops. But it can survive for several days in puddles or other collections of body fluid at room temperature."

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Sept. 23 that in a worst-case scenario, cases could reach 1.4 million in four months."

Now please explain to me what you meant by "Why the tin foil hat time."

I did. I highlighted the appropriate comment (Oct 5)

Campaigns to reassure the public will increase the magnitude and human cost of this outbreak because it will give them a false sense of security and make them believe that all they have to do is relax and do nothing.

Unsupported claim. The newspaper article quoted, "… being within three feet of a patient for a prolonged time without protective clothing is considered to be direct contact." Not something the general public has to really panic about. I'd stick to the reports by CDC, WHO, Health Canada, etc for their recommendations.

"They are dressed that way because they are most likely dealing with and disinfecting cadavers." – Oh, so I guess the NBC cameraman who recently caught Ebola in Africa was dealing with and disinfecting cadavers?

Actually, yes. I read the interview with him. He believes he caught Ebola while disinfecting a vehicle transporting infected individuals and corpses. His face was splashed by bodily fluids on the vehicle surface. Your point is?

Face shields would have protected him. My country is sending them to the affected countries.

LOL!!!

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Sept. 23 that in a worst-case scenario, cases could reach 1.4 million in four months."

Yes, sadly that may come to be. All the Ebola outbreaks have occurred in some of the poorest countries in the world, with very little infrastructure and only rudimentary health care systems.

LOL!!!

He claims he got infected helping disinfect make shift ambulances. You find that funny?

I will sleep better tonight knowing that "your country" is sending face-shields to the affected countries.

What is the difference between a man with a face-shield and a tin-hat? In this case maybe not much. With Ebola all you have to do is take off your PPE in the wrong sequence at the end of the day and you can die.

Please re-read my last posting from 10/6/2014.

Bowman, I don't want to match wits with you, so this will be my last posting on the matter.

I will sleep better tonight knowing that "your country" is sending face-shields to the affected countries

How about ZMapp? Heard of that? Developed in Canada. The Ebola Vaccine? Also developed in Canada. Among millions of dollars in aid and multiple medical teams, Canada is sending basic medical supplies that these countries do not have. Jeer if you want.

……I don't want to match wits with you

Although it is not yet airborne, there are many other ways to catch it. For example, you could place your hand on a victim's forehead to see if they are feverish, then rub your own hot, tired eyes.

Not yet airborne? What are you expecting?

Anyways, your scenarios is not possible according to the CDC.

I suggest looking into the Nurse in Madrid who has Ebola.
Caught by just touching her forehead after treating Catholic Missionaries in Spanish Hospital.

Personally, the countries that have a significant ebola outbreak should of had all flights stopped or forced to land at limited number of airports where all the passengers could be give good check-up and tested for being a carrier. Passenger would be allowed to carry on but be required to report where they intend to go or have been so can be tracked.

With the easy of travel these days, the 1st World Nations need to get their rumps in gear & be prepared to localise and treat disease outbreaks before they can spread too much. Would be cheaper in long run for them.

Regards

MMG.

I suggest looking into the Nurse in Madrid who has Ebola.
Caught by just touching her forehead after treating Catholic Missionaries in Spanish Hospital.

I was commenting on tumbleweed's scenario. Infection from sweat is highly unlikely as virus concentration in sweat is very low, usually below the pathogenic threshold. Also Ebola cannot cross healthy skin and mucosal barriers.

Just saw that most airports are bringing out scanners to check for potentially infected passengers. As these are thermal scanners, I'm not sure that they are the total answer. But it's a start.

Yea, not very transmitable, and yet very well-trained doctors and nurses wearing full bunny-suits are getting it, and dying from it, so the average person has nothing to worry about either.

They are now admitting that it can last for hours on non--porous surfaces, too.

What could possibly go wrong, if we don't impose a ban on travellers/flights from Western Africa????????

I imagine we shall see, soon enough.

I am all for applying the same free to travel philosophy to our criminal justice system. There is absolutely no sense to isolate and lock-up criminals in one place. They should have free and unfettered opportunity to move about within our society. We'll just ask them if they are going to consort with other known criminals and commit any additional crimes. If they say "no", we should just set them free and then feel all warm and fuzzy about it.

<sign>

A lot of panic and not a lot of sense.

This virus is killed by normal soap. Medical personnel who remember the rules are not catching it.

The disease hit Lagos, a city twice the population of New York and, despite Nigeria being a third world country, it was contained and eliminated after killing only eight people.

So long as you can basically restrain yourself from licking sweating and bleeding Africans, you should be fine.

Yea, not very transmitable, and yet very well-trained doctors and nurses wearing full bunny-suits are getting it, and dying from it,…..

And you know that for a fact?

Maybe you should tell that to the CDC. After investigating both nurses infected in Texas, who were treating Thomas Duncan, CDC chief Thomas Frieden stated that both infections were due to serious lapses in infection control protocols.

CDC epidemiologists have been tracking 48 others that came in contact with Thomas Duncan after he arrived in the US. After two weeks there have been no signs of infection.

Ebola tends to affect the poorer side of society. The ones CDC are watching, are more healthy, more to be hygienic & able to afford to see doctors or willing to go to hospital in frst place.

If Ebola were to hit the lower side of society where people are more likely to less healthy & hygienic (either through poor living conditions or mental problems), not able to afford to go to doctors (or turned away from hospitals/fobbed off by unconcerned staff) or not be willing to trust doctors/hospitals in first place then ebola will have chance to spread fast.
Once first few cases occur there is a good chance of panic.

Regards

MMG.

An interesting comment made yesterday on the news by a guy representing the company which is about to make 500,000 disposable suits for the British government for use in foreign aid.

He said the big problem with the designs he's seen use din Spain (and I assume in the USA) is the use og goggles.

These are difficult to remove safely – hence the British suits sue visors.

I suspect attention to detail like this is going to be important.

Bangorstu and mad mecha guy. Thanks for a rational and sane response to what is rapidly spiraling into hysteria and nonsense.

EBOLA'S FIRST U.S. CASUALTY … A VICTIM OF OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM TOO?

It turns out that Thomas Eric Duncan, the first man to die of Ebola in America, may have been a victim of America's health care system too.

In a letter to the Dallas News the family of Mr. Duncan writes that he first showed up at Dallas' Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital with a 103-degree fever, complaining of stomach pains. He also told the staff that he had been in Liberia, but left the country to be with family in the U.S. because of the Ebola threat.

But Mr. Duncan had a problem. He had no insurance.

He was released from Presbyterian Hospital with some antibiotics and Tylenol, and a 103-degree fever. The hospital is still not willing to discuss what happened the first time Duncan visited their Emergency Room. He would return two days later in an ambulance, vomiting and incontinent.

The difference between immediate treatment and non-treatment can be seen in how Duncan's nurse, Nina Pham, is doing and how things turned out for Mr. Duncan.

Mr. Duncan's family is now speaking out, in the hopes that no other family has to go through what they are going through now. Josephus Weeks, a U.S. Army and Iraq War veteran, has written the family's response to the media hype here.

Mr. Weeks is also Mr. Duncan's nephew.

One final thought. If the media gave as much attention to why Duncan was initially turned away as they are currently devoting to scaring America about the virus I'm guessing that our health care discussion would take a whole new

The CDCs protocols were a serious lapse in judgment.

They've since changed them, in the last 24 hours, to require full head to toe coverage.

So yes, I do know that for a fact – as reported in the news, numerous doctors and nurses in West Africa have come down with the disease, even though following the full head-to-toe coverage model.

Seems it is okay to quarantine Americans, but foreigners from the hot zones get a pass to travel anywhere as desired.

Yep, makes perfect sense, right? (heavy sarcasm intended, in case you couldn't tell, in the preceding rhetorical question)

No need to worry, since Ebola is only lethal to 70% of those that catch it (seems to me that is a little more dangerous than your average, run of the mill, flu).

But Mr. Duncan had a problem. He had no insurance.

He also lied to the medical staff on his first trip to the hospital. This delay is what killed him.

So yes, I do know that for a fact – as reported in the news, numerous doctors and nurses in West Africa have come down with the disease, even though following the full head-to-toe coverage model.

Yes, its magic.

No need to worry, since Ebola is only lethal to 70% of those that catch it (seems to me that is a little more dangerous than your average, run of the mill, flu).

A good example why morbidity rate is not the only indicator of viral lethality. Influenza is still in no danger of being supplanted as the greatest killer of human beings of all time.

True, but on a per capita basis, the death rate is very, very low, when compared to Ebola.

Also, the Dr. in NY that now has it, also doesn't recall any incident where his protective suit might have been breached, along with many of the other doctors and nurses stating the same, so………

Ona per capita basis, flu is vastly more dangerous to Americans than Ebola.

Given only one American has died from it you've got a better chance of marrying Kim Kardashian.

It seems Americans are determined to make this situation, serious as it is, into an apolcalyptic crisis, which it isn't – at least outside West Africa.

Again, it seems you lot don't think you're at least as competent as the Nigerians… or even Senegalese.

Remember, even the Congolese managed outbreaks OK – mainly because the inhabitants of area prone to the disease know how to behave.

Acting like a headless chicken is all good fun, but hardly helpful.