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"Batman Premier Shooting" Topic


36 Posts

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1,188 hits since 20 Jul 2012
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Personal logo Volstagg Vanir Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2012 4:52 a.m. PST

Murphy has Posted Prayers in the Lounge-

Here, I remain Silent->

link

Full Coverage->
link

Who asked this joker20 Jul 2012 5:51 a.m. PST

Absolutely horrible. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2012 6:08 a.m. PST

I thought (hoped) this was some kind of twitter hoax when I first saw the story being reported.

Sadly not.

Old Slow Trot Inactive Member20 Jul 2012 6:38 a.m. PST

And the cops have the reported shooter alive and in custody.

vojvoda Inactive Member20 Jul 2012 6:42 a.m. PST

A wacko is born every day…
Nuff said.
VR
James Mattes

Personal logo Ditto Tango 2 3 Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2012 7:15 a.m. PST

Horrible.
--
Tim

Personal logo Volstagg Vanir Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2012 8:18 a.m. PST

My Initial shock has simmered into a Demand to do…

…Something!

Is it in the Purview of Fezz & TMP to set up a Donation Fund
to help dissuade potentially overwhelming medical/funeral costs…?
Not that such action will Change … anything,
but perhaps (if Only Slightly!) mitigate the Recovery process…?

I feel the Demand to Action:
This could have been Any of Us…


Literally:
"For What It's Worth"
YouTube link

jpattern220 Jul 2012 9:14 a.m. PST

Very sad.

His mother apparently said something to the effect of, "You have the right one," implying that she knew in advance that he was capable of something like this.

Jovian120 Jul 2012 9:58 a.m. PST

Perhaps we could enlist RPGNow or some other entity to do a charitable contribution and we can contribute through them like they did for Haiti, etc. I know I would contribute.

Personal logo Saginaw Supporting Member of TMP20 Jul 2012 10:08 a.m. PST

My most fervent prayer is that those "better angels of our nature", which President Abraham Lincoln so eloquently spoke of during his First Inaugural Address in 1861, will engulf this country and our citizens and drown the evil of this lone, selfish act. Amen.

Personal logo combatpainter Supporting Member of TMP Fezian20 Jul 2012 4:23 p.m. PST

Guns don't kill but people do and when nuts can get their hands on auto weapons and limitless ammo with a drivers license this is the outcome.

blackscribe Inactive Member20 Jul 2012 5:35 p.m. PST

He could've used his mad bomb-making skills to load up his car and drove into the lobby for similar effect.

Cincinnatus Inactive Member20 Jul 2012 7:53 p.m. PST

It wasn't an automatic weapon but the same type of weapon that requires one pull of the trigger to fire a round. Hardly much different from the things they used in the ACW (at least some troops in the Cav). Granted the magazine capacity is larger but having access to limitless ammo had no effect, he only needed 100 rounds or less to do this type of damage in that situation.

It wouldn't have been any better if he had used his knowledge of chemicals to produce something explosive or something toxic.

I'm sure the theater had a sign preventing people from bringing in firearms (they do in some concealed carry states) or at least a rule against it. Why didn't that stop this from happening? Either he couldn't read or wasn't aware of the policy?

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2012 6:18 a.m. PST

I'm sure the theater had a sign preventing people from bringing in firearms (they do in some concealed carry states) or at least a rule against it. Why didn't that stop this from happening? Either he couldn't read or wasn't aware of the policy?

Are you being serious ?

I think it didn't work because he'd already decided he was going to shoot a whole bunch of people and had decided that breaching a concealed weapon law probably wasn't going to make a difference in the long run.

Cincinnatus Inactive Member21 Jul 2012 7:36 a.m. PST

Thanks, 20th for the clarification. I really didn't expect someone to give me an answer as I didn't want to take this thread any farther down that road than Combatpainter took it. My "question" was just a quick hit reply to him for balance but since you answered let me get a final clarification of your point:

You mean to say that someone who is already willing to break a more serious law isn't going to be deterred by a sign (i.e. gun law)?

That the only people who would pay attention to the sign (i.e. gun laws) would be the law abiding, responsible citizens that are the very people who should be the ones carrying the weapons?

That when you outlaw guns, only the outlaws have guns?

Are those the points you are trying to make with that very excellent answer to my question?

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2012 7:42 a.m. PST

Again, not completely clear on your point. Are you suggesting things would have been better if the people in the dark and smoke filled cinema had pulled out their own guns and started shooting at random as well ?

Cincinnatus Inactive Member21 Jul 2012 8:14 a.m. PST

No, as I think would be obvious to most people, I am commenting on the silliness of MORE gun laws when the only people who follow them are the ones who aren't the problem anyway.

But –

You really think that's what most responsible gun owners who would be carrying in that situation would do? Pull out and start firing at random just because they have a gun?

Corporal Crow Wing21 Jul 2012 8:58 a.m. PST

Okay, let's not spin this into a gun-control debate.
Of more concern to me is the elements of human nature that will lead someone to watch Heath Ledger's "Joker" in the previous film and adopt his twisted logic… glorify in the unleashing of chaos and carnage. As gamers and fans of action video/lit, I think we all hear the Siren call at least a little bit. Who of you has not, maybe once or twice, wished you could be on the scene of a great battle? Even while your rational mind thanks your Deity of choice that you won't ever have to? How far from there to an unhappy, disappointed mind deciding to bring his fantasy of horror to life?
In a small dark corner of my mind, I am that guy. So are you. So are we all. Maybe the real mystery is how all of us keep that guy in the corner.

just visiting Inactive Member21 Jul 2012 9:04 a.m. PST

You funny, rhetorical two.

If just ONE nearby patron had broken the "rools" to carry his/her weapon, and had fired early on, many lives would have been saved and many more people would have gone home instead of wounded to the hospital. The theoretical defender would be facing a life-changing situation: beginning with having his/her weapon taken, probably being arrested, and a good chance of being charged with the crime of breaking the stupid gun laws. Later, s/he could be facing civil action from one or more patrons and their families for accidental injury/death as the perp was brought down; in a crowded theater a missed shot would have a good chance of hitting an innocent person. After the heat had died away, an accidental injury/death would not be easily forgotten or forgiven. That is possibly one of the reasons why the off-duty cop in Las Vegas c. 10 years ago got really close in the bar before emptying his .25 caliber pistol into the chest of one of the robbers: he didn't want to risk hitting a customer. The cop paid for his concern: lost a thumb, and suffered more grievous injuries that nearly ended his life, by braving the gunfire of the robbers (advancing through a veritable "hail of bullets") until he felt he was close enough to retaliate safely. One must consider all such ramifications when the decision to concealed-carry is taken….

The Gray Ghost21 Jul 2012 1:43 p.m. PST

But that's the way it should be, if you are going to pull your gun and engage someone in a dark theater in a shoot out you had better be God Damned sure about what you are doing.
Otherwise you are just adding to the causalities.


btw I own two guns

charles popp21 Jul 2012 2:57 p.m. PST

This shocked me when I heard it. What gets me is he was clearly going off the deep end the couple of months before and non of his friends or family did anything. Like notifying the police or suggesting counseling or and this can be done ,put him in the hospital for 3 days. If there was not a huge stigma on mental health in this country maybe someone would have done something and people would be alive today. If someone had an open wound we would tell them to go get help,yet we scoff at those with mental problems who need help and when things like this happen we just shake our heads.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2012 4:46 p.m. PST

I think very few people are qualified to know or determine when another individual's emotional or mental state is likely to produce this sort of violent act. We may notice that a friend, loved one or acquaintance is acting strangely, but will we really expect them to go on a homicidal rampage? Such behavior is so far beyond the normal experiences of all but trained professionals that i doubt anyone had an inkling he would do this. Even his professors in neuroscience didn't pick up any cues. How can we really expect anyone else to?
Also, many such mental problems develop suddenly, and notoriously in the early 20s. He may not have shown any mental abnormalities at all until very recently.

Space Monkey21 Jul 2012 6:38 p.m. PST

Corporal Crow Wing has the right of it… rather than asking why this happened, ask why it doesn't happen more often. I think most people are decent most of the time… even the 'bad guys' don't spend the majority of their day doing 'bad' things. It's all wrapped up in those short moments when they/we cross over. Anyone who denies they've got that potential in themselves somewhere is lying.

Personal logo combatpainter Supporting Member of TMP Fezian21 Jul 2012 6:58 p.m. PST

You return a belt, scarf and hat at Macys and they black list you and don't let you return any more items. The guy bought 6000 rounds of ammo and no red flags were raised. LMAO Make all the arguments you want but logic is logic. You can choose to prescribe to it or not.

Whatisitgood4atwork21 Jul 2012 7:23 p.m. PST

<I am commenting on the silliness of MORE gun laws when the only people who follow them are the ones who aren't the problem anyway.>

Exactly the same could be said about any law. Immigration? The only people who are a problem don't follow the law anyway, so why change the law? What are you going to do, make illegal immigration MORE illegal. Ultimately it is an argument for no laws because bad people don't obey them.

Frankly this is one of the most absurd arguments I keep hearing over and over.

"Guys we have proved our crappy, lax, inconsistently enforced and contradictory laws do not work. Therefore laws don't work."

Cincinnatus Inactive Member21 Jul 2012 8:34 p.m. PST

You completely miss the point by a large margin.

You seem to get it when you talk about immigration but then critically fail when you make that weird leap of logic that it ultimately turns into an argument for no laws. How exactly do we go from point A to point B in thought process?

Personal logo Ditto Tango 2 3 Supporting Member of TMP21 Jul 2012 10:06 p.m. PST

Cincinnatus, thanks for steering this into a soapbox. Who gives a Bleeped text, people died yesterday, knock it off.
--
Tim

Mike at Work 2 Inactive Member21 Jul 2012 10:10 p.m. PST

Combatpainter… your example of Macys and the purchase of ammo is very..disjointed. Macy, the corporation..doesn't like giving back money..so they stop you from returning things.

purchasing 6000 rounds of ammo (was it a single store/vender he did this at or multiple) is again governed by laws (he must be licensed to purchase firearms/ammo) and company policy. Alot of places wouldn't bat an eye at someone purchasing 6000 rounds of ammo. I know people (in the very Liberal-leaning Commenonwealth of Massachusetts) that purchase 1000 rounds of ammo for a weekend at the range.

you can empty a semi-auto pistol in well under 30 seconds, which depending on caliber, and when you purchased the magazine, could have anywhere from 10 to 19 rounds in it. Assuming that it takes about 20 seconds to empty your 10 round mag,and a minute to reload the mag (you only have 1 mag, so no going in with 5 preloaded) an hour of shooting at the range can easily burn 450 rounds (10 rounds per minute and a half). Now do that for 3 hours (a fairly common range time)one day a weekend and you are burning 1350 rounds. Now that 6000 rounds is one month's supply of ammo for someone who fires a pistol one day a week for 3 hours at the range.

another point..doesn't matter if it was posted "no guns allowed", as he kicked in an emergency exit and threw smoke or tear gas into the darkened theater before opening fire. His determination to commit this crime would NOT have been detered by that or even metal detectors at the entrances.

Now, surveillance cameras on the emergency exits could have helped the police get on scene faster, by allowing security to see him coming while armed with a rifle and shotgun.

charles popp22 Jul 2012 6:40 a.m. PST

Is it okay to post a review of the movie and talk about it or is it too soon?

Cincinnatus Inactive Member22 Jul 2012 10:17 a.m. PST

Ditto – you can look at Combatpainter for the divergence. You aren't going to see someone post silly statements like that and not get called on it.

As far as people dying, I feel bad for their families and friends. Do you not think the same exact discussions about guns and mental illness hasn't been going on all over the place? I had a female friend say to me out of the blue yesterday that it was too bad someone in the audience wasn't carrying a weapon. So why do you think TMP is supposed to be some special place where we can't talk about this topic because people died? I bet more innocent people died in car accidents last week than were killed at the shooting. Are we also not supposed to talk about traffic either?

John the Confused22 Jul 2012 3:00 p.m. PST

A sad day.
My sympathy goes to the relatives and friends of the victims.

ChicChocMtdRifles Inactive Member23 Jul 2012 1:33 p.m. PST

Cmon, guys, this isn't a place for browbeatingt about gun laws. This is a place to grieve for the dead and wounded. Go argue some place else.

Cincinnatus Inactive Member23 Jul 2012 4:16 p.m. PST

You are correct. It is on the Obituary board which I didn't realize. Probably a good reason why cross-posting from the Obituary board is a very, very bad idea.

Personal logo Volstagg Vanir Supporting Member of TMP24 Jul 2012 5:11 a.m. PST

(reposted from the Other threads)

Thanks to Kevin Smith for Highlighting
One small but tangible way We can show
Solidarity and Support
to the Folks in Aurora who have undergone
this Terrible Ordeal->

picture

coloradocrimevictims.org

I'd ask everyone to Please Share this information:
Even if you don't make a donation personally,
Even if you aren't a Movies or Batman kinda person;
THis is IMO Bigger than alla that.

For those who are still pondering the Impliations of the event
(Such as myself)
Kevin did a frank discussion on his 'Spoilers' show (on Hulu)
that seems to cover most people's initial reactions…

Worth watching, IMHO.

We can Reclaim ourselves from the Insanity.

charles popp25 Jul 2012 5:04 p.m. PST

You know what is really sad is the number of small children at this midnight show. Why is this. Even though it was not a R rated flick, it is PG-13. why is there so many under 13 at the show at such a late hour. If going to a midnight show is so important then get a sitter or if you can't then do not go.

ChicChocMtdRifles Inactive Member07 Aug 2012 7:44 a.m. PST

It was probably because Batman has been a children's character for years. So the rating is for older ones, little guys still want to see Bats kick tail.

Doesn't excuse it, but may explain it.

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