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"So why join in the first place?" Topic

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1,043 hits since 5 Jul 2011
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Comments or corrections?

GarrisonMiniatures Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 8:20 a.m. PST

Words fail me.


Streitax Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 8:49 a.m. PST


Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 8:54 a.m. PST

He was a medic though.

Sane Max Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 9:01 a.m. PST

what, seriously, were the chances of his Ship getting deployed to Afghanistan?



GypsyComet05 Jul 2011 9:03 a.m. PST

In a Geneva Convention conflict, a Medic might be able to get away with not carrying a firearm. I don't think any of the current conflicts qualify, however.

Shagnasty Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 9:06 a.m. PST

Yes, why join the military? Reminds me of the girl in the California NG who freaked out when being sent to the '91 action near Kuwait. She said she joined the NG to save people in "floods and stuff" not fight in a war! What kind of demented youth are we raising? (Rhetorical question!)

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 9:19 a.m. PST

An Army Doctor or two whose medical school bills had been paid by joining the Army Reserves also experienced sudden conscientious objector conversions in 1991.

Streitax Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 9:58 a.m. PST

One of my classmates in Officer's Basic at Fort Sill, a fellow ROTC graduate, experienced similar pangs of conscience after 4 years of draft deferment and applied for CO status. I have no idea of the outcome.

Photonred Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 10:14 a.m. PST

Send them all to jail IMO required to obey ALL lawful orders given when they refuse prosecute them and throw away the key its not like they were drafted after all and you presumably have to be an adult to join so they should accept the consequences for there refusal.

Personal logo Ditto Tango 2 3 Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 10:31 a.m. PST

I agree wioth Photored – if he were conscripted it'd be another story, but jeez.

CPT Jake Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 11:21 a.m. PST

Kids do dumb stuff.

He is facing the consequences. 7 months worth.

quidveritas Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 1:05 p.m. PST

I wouldn't judge him too harshly.

Remember the story about the Navy medic that was assigned to a Marine outfit. The Marine outfit was overrun and all were killed save the medic. He had left his side arm in a plastic wrapper -- never used it.

Lots of opinions about that one.

Personally, when I was working as a medical officer in the field I found my weapon just got in the way of my doing my job. I had all kinds of people that carried weapons in the immediate vicinity. Indeed I was told to stay out of the way on more than one occasion-- I was the one guy they couldn't replace.

CPT Jake Inactive Member05 Jul 2011 1:20 p.m. PST

US Army medics are expected to fight to protect their patients. I know some who have done just that. I suspect Navy Corpsmen attached to Marines are supposed to act in a similar fashion.

I don't judge this kid. The panel at his Courts Martial did. I do think it slighty humorous that he got all worked up over rifle training, not even a combat deployment. But he faced the music when he refused.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 6:09 p.m. PST

To go back to the original question – and noting that he joined up at 18, and he's 6 years in now.

So why join in the first place? Probably, at 18, to see a bit of the world and get paid doing it. Sun, sand, some mates, meet friendly women and wear a smart uniform.

He might even have been tempted by the job description :

Medical Technicians, Medical Officers, Medical Services Officers, and the Queen Alexandra's Royal Naval Nursing Service provide full primary care, occupational health and secondary care facilities in hospitals, establishments and in many units afloat and in the field.

Who asked this joker05 Jul 2011 6:41 p.m. PST

Well, in his defense, he just didn't want to go to rifle training. Says nothing about him not wanting to be deployed. He just didn't want to kill. He is a Medic.

Cerdic Supporting Member of TMP05 Jul 2011 11:41 p.m. PST

If you just want to be a medic though, there are plenty of civilian options….

CPT Jake Inactive Member06 Jul 2011 3:10 a.m. PST

"Well, in his defense, he just didn't want to go to rifle training"

Except he was ordered to attend the training. You don't get to Not Follow orders without there being consequences. By the way, training is not killing. He could have easily attended and participated in the training. Big boys make big boy decisions, and suffer big boy consequences.

Photonred Inactive Member06 Jul 2011 4:53 a.m. PST

Right on Cpt Jake

Who asked this joker06 Jul 2011 6:43 a.m. PST

After digging further, I found he did, in fact, apply to be a "conscientious objector". link

His case is pretty weak at this point. He just didn't want to go to Afghanistan. I would have been OK with him not wanting to carry a weapon. Sounds more like he wants to shirk his duties.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2011 7:23 a.m. PST

He may well have been looking to get out early, but on the other hand the official job description doesn't say a lot about weapons training post intial training at HMS Raleigh.

PDF link

Cincinnatus Inactive Member06 Jul 2011 7:40 a.m. PST

I'm fine with his stance and the punishment seems fine too.

He might be shirking his duty but I'm sure he had plenty of opportunities to change his mind once the hammer started to fall, and yet he stood up and took the road less traveled. So he has some guts to face a tough situation after all.

He should have done what a lot of people do who don't want to deploy – get pregnant.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP06 Jul 2011 9:22 a.m. PST

That would have been a unique and potentially lucrative solution !

CPT Jake Inactive Member07 Jul 2011 6:57 a.m. PST

Here is a FANTASTIC story that is the opposite. A US Navy Corpsman supporting a Marine unit earns the Silver Star.


From the link: "equipped with his SAW, located the sniper position in a building and pulled the trigger, emptying the 200-round magazine and killing the two-man enemy team. While fighting ensued all around, Rodriguez dashed over to a wounded staff sergeant and quickly began to treat his leg wound and drag him to cover."


Photonred Inactive Member08 Jul 2011 5:49 a.m. PST

Cpt Jake,

Men and Women like that renew my hope for the race. Thanks for posting.

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