"Which medals do generals hide under their lapels?" Topic

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Or ribbons…

Probably 'Shoelace tying proficiency' and 'Stayed at work all day on Friday'

I'd opt for the "Lick My Plate Clean" ribbon with a bronze "E" (for efficiency) clasp. Sure makes a mess hall sergeant feel mighty appreciated!

Surely it is not the "I Breath" medal with Oak Leak clusters.

Are those all really medals? Or does he just put on one BIG medal with all those things appliqued on? Hey, I wonder if you shot it it would work like ablative armor?

As they have a specific order they must be placed in, it depends upon which medals he's received. The most important/prestigious ones go on the top left (as you are looking at him) and go down from there with the least important/prestiqious the bottom right.

Those are all individual ribbons, but they are each slid onto a metal backer rail in each row. Each rail is then connected together into one large sheet, which is then pinned over the pocket. You can either buy each ribbon and put it together yourself or there are companies which you supply with your list of medals/ribbons and they produce a full plate with all your medals in the proper order and a really nice high speed looking display.

After having spent some time in the Air Force a great majority of medals and ribbons are BS ribbons to make your uniform look cool, impressive, and more busy.

One thing I don't envy him is having to put all that crap on there in it's proper posisiton. He probably has a medal "Uniform Assembly third gold oakleaf cluster", either that or his aide has that one.

Probably for being all around spiffy.

As they have a specific order they must be placed in, it depends upon which medals he's received. The most important/prestigious ones go on the top left (as you are looking at him) and go down from there with the least important/prestiqious the bottom right.

So that would be the most important ones are covered up.

Actually, few are completely covered. It's permissible to use a staggered or stair-stepped array. You can tell he's using it from the single ribbon (and first in precedence of those he's earned) in the top row, the Defense Distinguished Service medal. General Petraeus doesn't have the Medal of Honor or the Distinguished Service Cross.

You might wish to see what he has earned, instead of assuming the awards are trivial. I'm not a fan of his, but he's definitely seen the elephant.

link

armyawards.com/awards.shtml

Allen

…and if you can believe wiki then here are his awards & decorations. link

In this day and age of soldiers and service members having four and five tours of duty in combat zones it is not uncommon for many to have 7 or 8 rows of awards and ribbons. More power to them. How many awards do the rest of you have?
VR
James Mattes

How many awards do the rest of you have?

Well said James. Even though medals such as good conduct medals are generally looked down upon and made fun of, they still indicate that someone wore the uniform and served their country. If you haven't done that, you don't have any room to criticize or belittle those who have. IMHO anyway …

Dave

At least it's better than the display method in the old Soviet Union: picture

I recall one photo where Zhukov was covered in metal, like a Christmas Tree…

Allen, vojvoda, DontFearDaReaper, I don't think anyone was belittling either General Petraeus' service*, or military service in general. To me, it's more like "if you had an embarrassing medal to cover up with the lapel, what would it be?"

*With a name like that, I keep thinking he should get a Triumph, not a chest full of ribbons.

If I had to pick one to tuck behind my lapel it would be my Kuwait Liberation Medal.

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So loud and gaudy it would seem more at home on some gangster rapper or old lady's hat than on a military uniform. Those Saudis certainly have a sense of style.

I have never seen a medal its match for being loud and proud. The picture truly doesn't do it justice.

LLC aka Ron

Oh, A ROMAN Triumph. For one second there Andrew I thought you were going to punish him by giving him a 1970s British sportscar……. link

Well, I was NOT assuming that any were trivial.
My only assumption was that some may have been covered up by his lapels, and wondered what they were. The staggered or stair stepped array is a solution to my question I had not thought of.

Let's face it, that uniform, with those lapels, was not designed with all those ribbons in mind.

Or an insulting hand puppet.

Allen, vojvoda, DontFearDaReaper, I don't think anyone was belittling either General Petraeus' service*, or military service in general

Perhaps, but if true there were some poor turns of phrases by several of the posters and why does OFM go out of his way to single out a general officer as opposed to any serviceman who has been awarded a number of ribbons and medals?

It comes across (at least to me) that its being intimating that generals (and General Petraeus in paticular) are wearing a ribbons that are not deserved and/or meaningful (ex. 'Shoelace tying proficiency' , 'Stayed at work all day on Friday', "Lick My Plate Clean" , etc.)

Even you use the phrase "embarrasing medal" …. although a Roman style triumph isn't a bad idea

Aecurtis answered the actual question in that the ribbons are staggered so as to not be covered up by the label.

Dave

How many awards do the rest of you have?

Not sure at the moment. I'm walking away from this dump with 5 and a new badge. I think it'll put me in the high teens.

Let's face it. Some of them are trivial while others aren't. Some you earn and some you get for just showing up. That's the way it is and most of us who have them know which is which.

Dave, I think Cincinnatus hit it on the head. I think the point many were trying to make was that many of these awards are "administrative" more than "service" related. Been in this command for over a year? Here's a medal. Completed this training course? Here's a ribbon and so on. It looks impressive. So impressive that one might think this fellow really didn't accomplish much:

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However, we know differently. Today there are more opportunities to reward soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines for their more "routine" duties and show appreciation or thanks. With that comes the inevitable, and sometimes regrettable comments about "ticket punching" which also regrettably can be true for some. Ultimately the old saying holds true: "By their deeds you shall know them."

I don't belittle or begrudge anyone's service to their country. If all they did was spend their time in service to their country than they did more than a lowly civilian like me. I am grateful and honored to know such men and women.

Even you use the phrase "embarrasing medal"

Yes, for the ones suggested in jest. please read what I wrote:

if you had an embarrassing medal to cover up with the lapel, what would it be?

That plainly does not say any of the medals pictured are embarrassing – I can't say that, because I don't know what any of them are.

Bryant, who is that in your picture?

Allen and others,
I had no intention of belittling the general's conduct or record. He did a good job in Iraq as have many others.

Having said that, the US military have a habit of issuing decorations at a very high rate compared to us Brits. I have seen references to the marksman's medal and as I recall your guys got a medal for serving in East Anglia in the 70's.

There is no "marksman's medal" in the US Army. It is a badge, with bars for qualification in a wide array of weapons. The Marines have their own system.

British soldiers still wear the marksman badge, and have done so for a very long time: one of a variety of trade, proficiency, and skill badges.

"…as I recall your guys got a medal for serving in East Anglia in the 70's."

It is a grim place, so probably well deserved.

Quite unlikely, though, unless it was the Overseas Service Ribbon or something similar. But those are not medals, either.

Allen

Thanks Allen, I think I got the marksman misinformation from an old article in the Houston Chronicle about a former sailor who travelled across country to threaten someone who had offended him online. I qualified for our badge back in 1975 but it had been a long day, I was hot, tired and had a lungful of CS gas so I went for a beer instead of collecting it from stores.
I got posted to East Anglia twice, you're right. I did meet one US airman who had received the ribbon for a posting to Lakenheath, previously he did 4 years in the Royal Anglian Regiment before he moved to the US.
For us Brits all the awards worn as ribbons represent medals. the ribbon is just the non dress version. My only one is the Long Service & Good Conduct medal. Barring bravery awards the only ones I could have got in my time (had I gone to the places at the right time) were the GSM for N Ireland, The Falklands liberation, UN forces in Cyprus & other places and the Kuwait Liberation. The British Empire Medal/MBE/OBE were usually awarded for charity or community activities.

"For us Brits all the awards worn as ribbons represent medals."

That is a difference between the two forces. The US has a lot of service ribbons that don't stand in for medals, and they do build up the array.

"The British Empire Medal/MBE/OBE were usually awarded for charity or community activities."

I can think of one UK gamer who received his MBE for service in Sarajevo; not sure how much of that was for being under fire (daily), or for doing good for the inhabitants, or both. Well deserved, IMO, in any case.

I had mentioned to James offline: I was lucky in that eight years of active duty in the '70s and '80s *didn't* take me to places that would give me a chest full of ribbons. And I earned more medals as a DA civilian (over 15 years) than I did in eight years as a combat arms officer in peacetime.

I have no regrest on that acocunt. I do not miss never having anyone shooting at me. Intentionally. Or with hostile intent.

I have to admit I always enjoyed taking the company through the CS chamber. For some reason, I'm not very sensitive to it, and I think it smells… rather nice. So it was always fun to have the troops unmask and then chat with them for a while, surrounded by white clouds. One did have to be prepared to step back if it looked like they were going to vomit on your boots.

Allen

Petra may not be my favorite all around guy, but he ain't no career desk jockey…some of those things you can't get unless someone is shooting at you…

That's an interesting question. Has he ever been under fire? I know he's commanded combat troops in a combat zone but that's not the same as having someone shoot at you.

He's worthy of respect for his leadership either way.

Well, he and Scott Wallace* had a mortar round land about fifty meters from them during the battle for Najaf:

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Some have questioned whether this incident justified his receiving the Bronze Star with "V" device and the Combat Action Badge:

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And folks question how lots of ordinary soldiers… oh, never mind.

I say: good enough. Not something to make a big deal over. Awards aren't always fair. But that *was* General Petraeus's only time in combat. It's not that easy to find infantrymen--especially light guys--who made it from 1974 to 2003--from 2LT to MG--without getting shot at sometime.

…"he ain't no career desk jockey…" You might want to look up his bio, Murph. He's punched his ticket in infantry units, but there are a lot of… distractions.

Oh, and he did get shot once--accidentally, by one of his own troops, on a training exercise.

*Scott Wallace is one of my heroes, even though the SOB made me his G-2, for which I will never forgive him. He won his Bronze Star (no valor device) and Combat Infantryman's Badge (as an armor officer) in Vietnam. I don't believe he was awarded anything for being under fire at Najaf: he was the V Corps commander, and Petraeus's commander; Petraeus was commanding the 101st.

Allen

Allen, I'd agree that my comments about the BEM/MBE/OBE were a bit of an over generalisation. A good proportion are awarded for commendable service that doesn't qualify for any of the specific awards. Typically this would go to a Warrant Officer or middle rank officer who had completed a difficult operational or organisational task.

During my time in the RAF, right at the end of the Cold War, it was very rare to see ANY medal ribbons. You'd see the occasional General Service Medal (Northern Ireland Clasp) and South Atlantic Medal, while the Long Serivce & Good Conduct Medal was held by most SNCOs (Officers are not eligible for that one). OBEs/MBEs/BEMs were occasionally dotted about. But that was it! I didn't come across a single bravery medal during my service (as there had been precious little opportunity to earn one for 30 years or so).

While it still incredibly rare to see more than two rows of ribbons (four ribbons to a row) on a British chest, one or two rows of ribbons are quite common now after two Gulf Wars, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Geez, even after 21yrs in the USMC, awards have been so far out of anything I considered relevant to my life now that I would have to check to see how many and what I earned. I can recall some, but not all.

I picked up a few awards, medals, and ribbons, along with some oak leaf clusters, and a V for valor. The only people that care are ……. well, now that I really think about it, no one cares besides the promotion board. And, I'm not being considered for any promotions, ever again, especially not since I got my DD-214.

Those who serve earn respect. And, those who serve know that the real heros never come back. Freedom, isn't free, someone always pays for it.