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"Dunn Kempf Wargame 1970's - Does anyone have a copy?" Topic


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Editor HistoryWargamingProject Inactive Member21 Nov 2007 3:14 p.m. PST

Does anyone have a copy of the Dunn Kempf American Military Wargame. I am on a internation hunt for it (American, Canada, Australia, UK and would you believe it, I have even asked the Russians if they stole a copy).
Even James Dunnigan does not have a copy.

DontFearDareaper Fezian Inactive Member21 Nov 2007 5:18 p.m. PST

Good luck… I played that a lot back in the day and my ROTC unit even had the big plastic terrain boards. Sadly all have been lost to antiquity.

Dave

RudyNelson21 Nov 2007 7:56 p.m. PST

I have only seen it at military bases. It was designed by officers attending officer training at Fort Knox. It was a miltary project and never sold to the public.

There were copies at the Fort Hood SimCenter and I checked out a copy for our Cavalry unit. Also at Fort Riley , I had a number of copies on my books at our SimCenter when I was the S4 of the MI Bn.

The board was german terrain but a terrain light plastic which used when touched unless you placed the boards over sand. Many Forts designed there own sturdy boards. At Fort Hood , it was local training areas. At Fort Riley, it was our deployment area in Germany for the 1st Inf Div.

The minis were produced under copntract with GHQ but local procurement bought other companies at each base.

RudyNelson21 Nov 2007 7:57 p.m. PST

At one time I still had the charts but , I will have to do some serious searching.

A lot better product was produced by a Marine officer in the early 1980s. I bought a number of the boards and the system at a Convention in Florida.

GenWinter21 Nov 2007 7:58 p.m. PST

I played the game at Fort Lewis with a bunch of local gamers. We set up our own scenario and according to one of the regular officers, we gave our selves way too much armor to stop a Soviet Armored Regiment attack. I must say the Sheridans performed admirably in the rules. We played on the plastic boards. Hope you find a copy. Great stuff.

Greg C.

RudyNelson21 Nov 2007 8:10 p.m. PST

Greg in practice once a Recon vehicle (not a tank) Sheridan fired its main gun, it raised to the third roadwheel and smashed the electrontics making firing the missle impossible. (The M60A2 was a lot more stable firing platform and had less inter-change problems.

Often a Cav platoon 3 M551 would use missles at long range and one would use guns and the other missles at mid range. At short range (also in Vietnam) close range would be guns. Boy the beehive was one impressive anti-personnel ammo.

jgibbons Inactive Member21 Nov 2007 8:44 p.m. PST

Oddly enough I may – if I can find it…..

zouave7 at gmavt d.o.t. net

Try me if you don't have luck elsewhere as it would take some digging and I don't know if I had all the components…

James

Personal logo svsavory Supporting Member of TMP21 Nov 2007 9:24 p.m. PST

I remember seeing it played at some late 1970's or early 1980's CAPCON conventions at Ohio State Univ., including the use of the plastic terrain boards. I never actually played it myself, but I always admired those terrain boards.

Hastati Inactive Member22 Nov 2007 4:24 a.m. PST

About 20 odd years ago I had the opportunity to buy a set of the plastic terrain that went with the set (the vehicles were missing/destroyed). Unfortunately, I was a starving university student and had to pass it up.

Major Mike22 Nov 2007 7:44 a.m. PST

There is a well abused copy sitting in a storage area at the Army ROTC department at Middle Tennessee State University. It has been a couple of years since I looked at it. It does not have all the figures and probably doesn't have all of the instructions. But, you probably could get them to part with it as they don't use it.

Personal logo Saber6 Supporting Member of TMP Fezian22 Nov 2007 11:03 a.m. PST

IIRC the rules were basically the WRG 1950-197x rules.

RudyNelson22 Nov 2007 3:50 p.m. PST

I th9ink Saber 6 may be correct. But there were extra charts and templates in the sets we had.

Panfilov22 Nov 2007 11:25 p.m. PST

Saber; IIRC the same, it even came with a copy of the WRG rules. Now if I could find mine…

As late as 1984, TRADOC was using a (the?) (Computer driven) system derived from WRG at White Sands for procurement background modeling. They took the terrain boards and computer on tour in Germany in 1985.

Editor HistoryWargamingProject Inactive Member23 Nov 2007 6:15 a.m. PST

Allen Curtis (American) has a copy and will let me have a copy when he finds it. Thanks for everyone's help and comments, I will be back again on this subject in due course.

Editor HistoryWargamingProject Inactive Member03 Dec 2007 5:55 a.m. PST

If anyone has copy, please let me know.

thanks

John

Jedidiah Inactive Member11 Dec 2007 12:52 p.m. PST

Why would you ever what such a barrel of worms? Living in the Missouri Valley I had access to all the stuff. And it is alot. Owning the Dunn Kempf does not make a set of rules. You need up todate manuals. The playing pieces are replacable/ all boards are in the hands of Manhattan Manuver Group members.
They used Men against tanks. Very simular to SUTIC. They both are roleplaying with judges making decisions like Kriegspiel of the 1800's. WRG it is not, but could be used. Any modern set of rules are better. 36 pages of rules and 10 mail in questioniers and answer post cards postage included. I have a air reference folder Vol.10 book 10. itis the size of 4 note books.

It would be more fun to play the aggresor forces game from the fifties. About five volumes of OB's and tactics.

All this and more info rests in my tombs. Copies can be made. Best to visit and charge up your kinkos card.

Editor HistoryWargamingProject Inactive Member18 Dec 2007 5:25 a.m. PST

Hi

thanks for the additional information.

Men against tanks? Aggressor forces? Tell me more.

Why am I doing this? Well I have been interested in classic wargaming rules, and I was being asked for copies periodically, so I decided to start selling them via johncurryevents.co.uk

I have a number more classic rule sets on the way.

Dunn Kempf was very influential and were copied by the Canadians, the British and the err Russians. Hence my interest. Anyway, tell me more!

John
john.curry@hotmail.co.uk

Jedidiah Inactive Member20 Dec 2007 10:28 p.m. PST

Went to your web. A good idea if you can make it work. I would send you a color copy if you pay for copying and postage. As I understand you plan to resale the book some how.
Estimate for copy and shipping first class UK about $50 USD usd
Ruf

Editor HistoryWargamingProject Inactive Member28 Dec 2007 9:55 a.m. PST

Thank you for your kind offer. However, I have already accepted an offer from another American just before xmas. If there are any problems, I will come back to you and ask you very nicely.
I have collected classic rules and I am asked for copies in the UK on an increasing basis, so I decided to do it properly via the website. My optimistic aim is to breakeven!

Thanks

John

Lookingglassman02 Jan 2010 11:31 a.m. PST

When I was in the Army I "liberated" approx 20 of the plastic terrain boards back in 1998. They were neglected with bird poop on them and headed for the trash dump so I grabbed them all, cleaned them up and have had them ever since. I have painted a few desert brown to simulate a desert environment and the rest are still their natural green color. Overall I am pleased with them and it is fun having them set up all over my house and running different battles on them at the same time.

Wolfhag Supporting Member of TMP13 Nov 2014 8:20 a.m. PST

Found a copy:
link

Wolfhag

Personal logo edmuel2000 Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2015 10:09 p.m. PST

The rules are available in digital format. Bought them through iBooks on my Ipad.

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