"Pistol Accident at Hartford City..." Topic

This past Sunday at the Hartford City Civil War event, during the Sunday morning tactical, a Confederate Reenactor was shot at extrememely <3 ft close range in the face by a Yank with a pistol.
He suffered mild powder and flash burns but literally could have lost an eye as a result.

This is once again, the reason WHY, the only ones that should be allowed pistols are A: Mounted Cavalry, and B: Officers.

If the Cav has pistols, then they used them WHILE MOUNTED ONLY…

Cowboy Action Shooting is going to ruin this hobby…

Ouch.

I had a buddy who was into ACW reenacting until an over-enthusiatic confederate cavalryman actually sabered him hard enough to unhorse him. I'm not sure mounted cavarly could be counted on to be much more responsible and safety concious than ground-pounders are.

Dave

What the heck does cowboy action shooting have to do with anything?

This is a simple case of a moron disobeying simple, basic firearms safety techniques.
-Kle.

I agree. The guy should booted from the group, and perhaps even have his gun taken away. Why ruin it for all the others?

Klebert…
There's been an increase of CAS shooters entering the ACW reenacting hobby recently, and while most of them are pretty smart, many of them seem to think of ACW reenacting as a "extension of CAS".
An example of this is the manner in which some cavlary"men", at a recent event were armed with Henrys (!), and did a "Range Riders" Style shooting, that was not seen during the ACW.
We've also discovered that a lot of the CAS violations seem to involve using weapons that are not period, or banned from being used anyway, but have "somehow" made it onto the field and into the holster.
Short Double Barrel Shotguns, Lemats with full Charges, Colt 1875 Armys, and a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 long colt…

I'm not knocking CAS, but it seems that the majority of the recent weapons violations and safety issues seems to be coming more from Cavalry members who are also CAS folks…

Isn't that kind of, well, farby?

We are ALWAYS told again and again… Never aim a weapon at anyone, period. This is why you always see those silly videos of firing rifles at a 45 degree angle into the air. Silly but everyone goes home healthy.

Most of the bad accidents with firearms I have seen at WW1 reenactments (the only reenacting I do) have been with Pistols. Moatly by people that should have know better but didn't think before they pulled the trigger.+

Wow, reminds me of a story my dad tells of the jerk who decided to fire his civil war rifle at a friend and hit him with the wadding – which hit him so hard it knocked him down. When he got up it took four people (including my dad who was never small being one of the big football types) to hold him back because he was going to kill the jerk.

I learned at a very early age – you never point a weapon at someone unless you intend to kill them. As for this jerk firing point blank – he should be charged with criminal endangerment or negligent endangerment as I am sure the victim never consented to being shot in the face. Those powder burns sometimes never go away.

I have a better idea.. how about if people learn about basic gun safety?

Like Jovian stated the only time I've ever pointed a gun at someone my intention was to kill them (it was a mugging attempt at our local mall- they did not expect me to pull a CCW. They did the smart thing which was drop the knife and run.

Rule #2.

Rule #2.

Rule #2.

What's "Range Riders" Style shooting?

Just pretending to be an officer doesn't make one a reenactor any safer 'per se'. It WAS an officer reenactor who accidently shot a guy in the neck at the Gettysburg 135th event in 1998.

As long as reenacting exists there will be accidents, or perhaps as in this case, acts of stupidity. I have been reenacting CW and WWII since 1974 and have seen my fair share of both the truly accidental, and the moronic. Any human endeavor which counts its participants in the thousands is going to be blessed (or cursed) with all the variations of the species, and therefore subject to all the foibles attendant.

No form of reenacting is ever going to be completely "safe"
or risk free. While we can all hope for the minimization of incidents through drill and education, any reenactor must accept the risk inherrant in the hobby. The amazing thing is that acts of lunacy (or accidents) do not happen more often. Given the convergent elements of explosives, vehicles (including tanks) horses (CW) airplanes, cannon, and upmty thousand armed to the teeth humans, it is both a miracle, and perhaps testamnet to some degree of forethought, that there are not more injuries. I am not condoning unsafe behavior, but by the same token, any reenactor must have a clear understanding of the inescapable risk he assumes when stepping on to the field. Education and training are the best methods of controlling and minimizing accidents, other restrictions do not assure the mitigation of risk.

Take a look at the Opening credits for the old "Annie Oakley" tv series, where she is riding hell for leather blasting away with her repeater…
Now…imagine seeing that at an event…

More reasons to keep my re-enacting on the tabletop

Cowboy Action Shooting is going to ruin this hobby…

That's not the issue. I do Cowboy Action Shooting, both mounted and dismounted, and the crew I shoot with are very safe. The issue is lack of basic firearms safety. It isn't hard and it's everyones' responsibility.

I've been reenacting for some 25 yeas and the accidents I've witnessed have been relatively small- thank god. That said, there is NO reason for anyone to have a pistol unless they're an officer or cavalry. There's no reason for infantry to have them.

I was at Raymond in 2001 when somebody wound up losing part of their reproductive organs due to a pistol shot. The spin was that somebody was "sniping". More like people were screwing around and nobody wanted to own up to it.

No excuse for what happened.

Oskar2ndChev…you are right…I'm sorry about the statement…We just seem to be having a lot of issues with them lately….

We've also discovered that a lot of the CAS violations seem to involve using weapons that are not period, or banned from being used anyway, but have "somehow" made it onto the field and into the holster.
Short Double Barrel Shotguns, Lemats with full Charges, Colt 1875 Armys, and a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 long colt…

Aren't there marshals or something, who are supposed to be checking firearms brought into the venue? Someone ought to be in charge, and take it seriously – the way it sounds, people could be showing up with live ammo…
-Kle.

Just pretending to be an officer doesn't make one a reenactor any safer 'per se'. It WAS an officer reenactor who accidently shot a guy in the neck at the Gettysburg 135th event in 1998.

Agreed, but perhaps, he meant that limiting pistols to officers and mounted would make for that many fewer pistols on the field. It might also make it a bit easier to spot who has them and whom to watch out for …

At all the events I have been included in, there was someone in charge. They lined everyone up and rodded the rifles and then check pistols for loads. They made sure that all weapons were empty before the enactment took place. Then fresh loads were loaded. All the rules were reviewed. Any violaters were immediately escorted from the field and were told they were not welcome back. No exceptions (that one was interesting, they had to escort the "leader's" son from the field, never to be welcomed back). harsh, but required. The idiots tend to not come back on there own.

Are LeMats now considered forbidden for ACW reenactor events?

lemats…no….full charges?…yes…

As a reenactor your probably still safer on the field than driving to it…

Given the lots of people with guns situation – accidents seem to be mercifully rare (and also seem to be possible in many hobbies / endeavors).

Glad the fellow wasn't seriously injured though!

And the person who did it defnitely needs a "talking to"

James

Aren't there marshals or something, who are supposed to be checking firearms brought into the venue? Someone ought to be in charge, and take it seriously – the way it sounds, people could be showing up with live ammo…

All responsible organizations have a firearms check program- basically to ensure you only have blanks and that your weapon is in safe mechanical order. They also will check to ensure that the weapon is clean. With Civil War era weapon, it's really easy to have a minie ball skirt get lodged in the breech if you go live shooting, only to have the lead piece get blown out later. We are extra careful when we live to fire to ensure that rifles are throughly cleaned out.

As for "range riding", we have out here what we call the "Josey Wales syndrome"- idiots riding around on horseback and shooting indiscriminantly into the infantry at less than safe range. To make things worse, these are also usually unsafe riders (gives cavalry a bad name). These yahoos are quickly dealt with and sent packing.

I can't speak for others but the times I've been an officer were very busy and a lot of work- keeping track of people, making sure there's enough water, etc. Like the real military, it's a lot of responsibility and you actually serve an important function. I've got no patience for wannabes. Interestingly enough, while I carry a pistol, I never bother loading it- too much going and it's just something more to have to worry about.

Hi Murphy

Can you just confirm the term 'Full Load' for the LeMat- do you mean some of the people you mention are going on the field with the shotgun charge loaded? and if so what is their intention.

Sorry – I meant 'full charge'

>I'm not knocking CAS, but it seems that the majority of the recent weapons violations and safety issues seems to be coming more from Cavalry members who are also CAS folks

From the original post I also didn't understand the connection to CAS. Thanks for adding this to inform the un-informed. lol

One of the problems I've seen in almost every era of reenacting I've done is that many people are ignorant of what damage firearmss can do, even with blank charged. Part of the problem, IMHO, is that many people are not familiar with firearms outside of a reenacting environment so they lack the familiarity.

Every year, our unit used to sponsor a live-fire at a local range (great PR) and one of the things we'd do is fire a number of volleys with live rounds into plywood boards set 20, 50 and 100 yards out. It was quite an eye-opener for the newbies and spectators alike.

they should all be required just to run about yelling BANG BANG!

ing stupid past time if you ask me.

Similar to Oskar2nd Chev, our unit did a demonstration in which we held a slab of frozen steak in front of an Enfield. The rifle only had a standard blank round with a paper cartridge. There is quite a hole in the slab. Very eye opening demonstration.

The topic of idiots with guns isn't particularly new to reenactments. I was at the Raymond Ms event a few years back where a local yahoo decided it might be a good idea to shoot at the reenactors with a 22. What a crazy weekend. Our Yankee column was flanked by a detachment of State troopers with m-16's.

The topic of idiots with guns isn't particularly new to reenactments. I was at the Raymond Ms event a few years back where a local yahoo decided it might be a good idea to shoot at the reenactors with a 22. What a crazy weekend. Our Yankee column was flanked by a detachment of State troopers with m-16's.

So you were there too? Boy, people were really freaking out on that one- all sorts of rumours flying about Deliverence-style local yahoos sniping at people et al. People were really freaking out about and leaving in droves.

I believe the investigation turned out it was a reenactor. Personally, I think people were messing around and nobody wanted to own up to it so they put it off to "a local yahoo".

But that's my theory.

Oskar2ndChev I was in the 9th TX at raymond. I remember that disaster well. Come to think of it, all the accidents I saw in reeactments always envolved a calvaryman, hotshots and always the most farby. The "rule of the thumb" never applys to them.

I was with the Army of the Pacific (I don't recall the specific regiment we were supposed to be portraying) so I saw things from the Union side.

For me, the worst part about Raymond was witnessing a collision between a fast moving car and a horse-drawn wagon on the main highway next to the reenactment site. That was NOT fun, especially since they had to put down the horse.

Come to think of it, all the accidents I saw in reeactments always envolved a calvaryman, hotshots and always the most farby.

So true! But I am glad that the shooting incident didn't involve a 58 cal projectile.

Were you involved in the "river crossing" battle? This was where the opposing forces spent most of the night camped directly accross a creek from one another and the next morning there was a major Union attack accross the river. That was fun!

My group, the Mifflin Guard, banned loaded pistols over ten years ago. Enlisted men are not permitted to carry them at all and officers may carry them only if they are not loaded. The problem with pistols is that they are just too darn easy to use. Infantry will normally discharge their muskets before closing with the enemy and there's no chance to reload once in close contact. But a revolver can fire again and again and in a melee the instinct to 'point and fire' seems to be almost irresistable to some people. We just remove the temptation and we have not had any problems.

Oskar2ndChev, yes I was there, of course we still laugh at the saay battle where we spent a long march to get around the trees for nothing, The battlefield was such so the viewers only got to see one side of the battle, and we only got to fire into the trees