"What a BASTARD of a weekend" Topic

Right people. I was on a battle over the weekend.

I can not say much as it is now sub judicae.

I would only say one thing NEVER,NEVER,NEVER,forget to take your ram rods out.

I was 20 meters away.

IT IS NOT A NICE PICTURE.

I will add that the guy is NOW out of life danger. Thjat was NOT the case for five hours on the table.

Jeesus

That sounds very, very nasty. Glad to hear he'll live.

For this reason, ramrods should not be allowed on the battlefield. That was the rule in many reenactments I participated in.

Was this at Nantwich?

I've been told that firing one's ramrod occurred during real battles, but that's a bit of historical accuracy anyone can do without.

Wyatt

Interesting to know how many people get seriously injured at these things – I seem to hear of so many – The Perry Twin who lost one of the tools of his trade springs to mind.

Pat

The only injuries my group sustained bar grazed knuckles were from backing into tree branches. Indeed before my time opne guy backed off a low cliff but was unhurt.

I've heard of 2 people dying when tempered blades broke and severed their femoral arteries and another guy who was letting people fire piles at him (pretty stupid in itself, but…) then someone picked up a sharp arrow in error and let fly. It went through his kite shield and stopped about an inch from his eyeball!

Was this Belvoir Castle?

Glad to hear that the injured guy is off the critical list.

I've known one guy who got hit in the head with an arrow (thankfully a combat blunt) at a reenactment, because the display wasn't marshalled properly.

Also seen a couple of people badly cut open at LARP events with badly made swords and daggers during weapons competitions.

Just thankful I've never been involved in anything more serious.

OUch! WHO THE HELL IS USING RAMRODS AT A BATTLE ANYWAY???…

You get 100 people in a firing line and are using ramrods, somebody is going to forget…

Not to sound ghoulish, but is there a news link to this…I'd like to read what occured, and once again reiterate safety to my unit on the field, as it seems that we will be having close to three thousand folks down at Mill Springs..

In the 60's the North-South Skirmish Association had a rash of these sorts of incidents. As a result of that both the Brigade of the American Revolution and the Northwest Territorial Alliance banned ramrods and wadding your musket. Unit commanders are responsible for collecting all ramrods prior to a unit moving onto the field for the demonstration. You are supposed to count the muskets and the ramrods and if their is a difference you have to find out why.

Yes, not wadding the musket does give more of a "thooomp" than a "bang". On the other hand no one has a ramrod through themselves and you don't set fire to dry grasses when burning wads land in it. (We had that happen once during a demonstration for a local TV station when burning powder alone set some tall grass on fire. Lots of fun stomping that one out.)

Put someone's eye out with that…

Most reenactments usually plainly state that no ramrods will be drawn on the field, except when a soldier steps out of line for the Ordinance Sgt. to check their weapon due to possible malfunction.

Events also usually prohibit "wonder wads", "taped catrdiges", "Stapled cartridges", "penny rounds", etc…

Safety is the major concern, and whoever was in charge of the firer should have been watching a little more closely.

I recall reading about an incident where a muzzle tompion was shot from a musket at an ACW event and hit a drummer boy's drum. The kid didn't even flinch,and later,was decorated by his reenactment unit for "bravery under fire". He was lucky.

When i first got into ACW reenacting, it was standard procedure to leave all the ramrods in camp prior to the battle. Since then we gradually got in the habit of keeping the ramrods in their holders with the musket, but not ever drawing or using them in the battles. This seems to work pretty well and I've not heard of a ramrod incident in many years. Of course there have been a few OTHER things to come flying out of firearms in recent years that caused injury. A tompion blew a hole through a drummer's drum at one event and the broken off part of a cleaning worm hit a man in the head at another (the injury wasn't too bad, but then the lawyers got hold of things and the event has been permanently shut down). And then there was the incident with the spent ball in the borrowed revolver's barrel at the 135th Gettysburg…

The thing that sort of scares me about the incidents is that considering the number of shots needed to inflict a casualty in the real war either we reenactors are incredibly unlucky to get hit every time something flies out of a musket or there is an AWFUL LOT of other stuff getting shot around that isn't hitting anyone and we never know about it.

At the risk of asking a stupid question, how do you reload your musket without using the ram rod during a reenactment event? (says he who has never fired a musket)

Eesh… glad no-one was killed in the incident…

Alte Fritz: AFAIK they just shake the powder down or bang the musket butt off the ground in French-skirmisher style.

Fritz, you simply pour the powder down the barrel. What you don't do is ram the empty paper cartridge down on top of it. By pouring loose powder down the barrel and not wadding it you also need to keep the muzzle above the heads of the other line when you fire in order to keep the powder in the area of the touchhole. This also provides a bit more safety if something unwanted has gone down the barrel by accident. That was another safety rule we instituted, no leveling of the muskets at the opposing line. You had to aim above their heads. Many "battlefields" we did demonstrations on were awfully small, and opening fire at 20 yards or less could result in powder burns on the opposing line as both unburned and burning powder spewed forth from the barrel.

Unfortunately it does then make the display rather pointless as it then looks very little like an ACW firing line. I had a similar feeling about the one ECW battle I've watched (Cotes Bridge) where they fired their muskets off at 45 degress

I was at a ECW reenactment event a couple of years ago and watched in horror as a horse took a cannon blast at about 40 ft. The horse staggerd but seemed ok other than that. The rider looked a bit shocked too.

Tony
occultwars.com

At BAR events, ramrods are allowed in the muskets, but are only taken out to 'spring rammers' i.e. check for unexpended loads, before marching on to the field and again after leaving the field. We level our muskets unless there is a unit close to our front.

My biggest safety concern is always with artillery, the officers need to be very aware of where the guns are and when they are going to fire, you never want to be in front of a line passing through the gun's hubs when it fires. I have a comrade who's deaf in one ear because this precaution was violated at a CL event.

I've been doing RevWar reenacting since the Bicentenniel, and it is interested how the safty rules have evolved. Twenty-five years ago we would fix bayonettes and simulate a charge on the field, sometimes closing to contact by pre-arrangement with a trusted opponent regiment. Now, bayonetts are fixed only for the parade off the field.

-Ray

I remember working at Renaissance Faire in So Cal where as line of Arquebusers fired from Procession Hill – something they did every day that season, to honor the queen or some such rot. Anyway, the last time they fired, there was a wierd whistling sound mixed in with the bangs. And then a medical emergency on the other side of the faire – ramroad through a customer's leg.

Never saw another arquebuser at the faire…

I believe many of the standards and practices in the US started to come about after the 100th anniversary of Gettysburg reinactment which occured on the actual battlefield. Units closed to actual melee, ramrods got shot and one cannon exploded. The National Park Service was so horrified that they have never allowed a similar event to occur on the Park property, to include the filming of Gettysburg.

warwell
For this reason, ramrods should not be allowed on the battlefield. That was the rule in many reenactments I participated in.

They are banned SUPOSSEDLY in Germany as well. But there is STILL a difference between East and West. The Napoleonic group that is prevelant in the Easat, turns almost a blind eye. In the West, they ARE banned.

All the others.

It was at Großbeeren in Brandenburg. About 20 klicks South West from Potsdam. But this is a WORLD problem, with re-enactment.

I KNOW that it is "more authentic", but….

In the words of a certain Sergeant "Hay, lets be carefull out there".

That's always that risk when even allowing the ramrods on the field, unfortunately. My ACW group goes out with ramrods, but you had better damn well never draw the thing, or put paper down the barrel, or the 1st sergeant will tear you a new one (you don't even draw it to clear a jam or a foul- you're done firing for that engagement). But we're just one small group, and we know not everyone is as careful, and even if they are being careful there's always the chance someone will still make a mistake….

Glad the hear the guy pulled through, at any rate.

-Will

Most units in line have a second sgt/ordinance sgt, who stands in the rear of the line. If you are firing and have an issue, you cease firing and fall back to the Ordinance Sgt, while holding the rifle at "port arms". You tell him what's wrong with the piece, and then you two step further back from the firinig BEFORE he even looks at it.
If he can clear it, (using a nipple pick to clear a clogged hole or something), then he will. If not, You are done for the fight, and usually pulled from the line.
After the fight, the weapon is looked at.

The only time that my unit draws and uses ramrods is in the first mornings inspection of muskets when they are dropped down the barrel to "ping" in order to make sure that there is no dangerous powder build up, or something in the barrel.
Afterward each rifles is personally inspected by the 1st Sgt. to make sure it's able to fire, (a cap is shot at a leaf on the ground, etc..), and verification of the ramrod being put back in it's proper place.

The units been in existence since 1972 and no one has been injured due to a "ramrod" incident.

As for the 100th Gettysburg, (1963), there were a LOT of issues, mainly due to poor construction and safety standards. (Original period weapons being fired full charge, homemade cannons, modern propellents being used in cartridges, etc…)
The hobby has gotten a LOT safer now…And each accident is usually (statistically) a "drop in the bucket"…but that doesn't mena anything when you have a ramrod shot through your leg…

150th Gettysburg is coming up in 2013 and it's looking like we will have approx 25-30K reenactors and over 250K spectators…

Murphy

---(using a nipple pick to clear a clogged hole or something)---

Hey Murph, is that like a nipple clamp?

Cheers,

Pro…

Pro…
Sorry I was looking at your av again….

What were you saying???

;-)

C'mon man, get a grip on yourself, it's only a pair of … oh yes, I see what you mean!

Cheers,

Pro…

I read a jouster got a lance splinter in the eye at rockingham castle last weekend. Hope he's OK.

I've been in quite a few reenactments and with or without ram rods, there's no reason to have to use one since blanks are being used (you just pour the powder down the barrel).

Most of the events I do tend to be campaign-oriented so leaving a ram rod behind in "camp" is not an option.

The safety rules we use pretty much minimizes any potential hazards and those who are involved in campaigner events tend to be more experienced and mature. Not to say that accidents don't happen…

Most of the accidents I've witnessed over 20 years of reenacting have been with pistols for some odd reason.

Rockingham Castle guy died sadly, there was quite a lot of write-up in the national press. A member of the Hoplite Association