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"Open Letter from Tony Reidy of Wargames Factory" Topic


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CelticPagan16 Jan 2011 9:27 a.m. PST

@John the OFM – John, may I suggest you consider making your IP claim known to the new owners? You suggestions to the LaUL were/are, under Tony's original setup, yours. WGF would give credit to those who suggested the items, and you retain ownership of the IP, at least as I read the information.

Cergorach16 Jan 2011 9:28 a.m. PST

@sector51:
WGF is three years old, the google results you point at are who has it available now, big difference. Sure, I could have ordered it from the US, but have you any idea what shipping costs from the US and if I place a larger order what the extra taxes, import fees, and administration fees are like? Thus sure I could get them, but they wouldn't be cheap plastic figures anymore. That's the reason why it's important to get your products into European (web)stores.

Just ordered 40 Britisch and 54 Shock Troopers from the UK, both conversion material for my 40k.

As for the Romans, I'm not a historical buff, so I do not really care for the difference (I actually prefer square shields). But that doesn't matter for the quality of the sculpts, imho the Warlord ones are better regardless of period.

As for two different processes, that shouldn't matter, the digital sculpts are just 'less'. It's not a matter of the tools used, it's a matter of the quality of the (digital) sculptor. As a matter of fact I believe that GW is actually doing digital sculpt directly to mold with a few of it's plastic products (I am sure they are using digital sculpting).

As for buying out the Chinese investor, why should they/he want to? WFG without it's Chinese partner is not producing any miniatures, they are still depended on cheap Chinese labor/tech. Why would the Chinese investor want to sell if they can further decrease costs and possibly setup a better distribution deal? The Chinese investor doesn't need Tony, Tony needs the Chinese investor.

Warlord might indeed recycle it's ranges, it chooses it's plastic products in such a way to be able to just provide different attachments, it's smart business. I won't ever buy the plastic/metal hybrids, but what they do have in plastic I like a lot. Perry Miniatures makes even better plastics imho. I'm also happy that more companies doing plastic miniature products are showing up.

A for the battle of 15mm vs. 20mm (1/72) vs. 28mm. Companies like The Plastic Soldier Company are actually making the same products in all three scales, imho proof that there is demand for all these scales (especially for historical WWII ranges). There are very few companies making sci-fi miniatures, especially in plastic (Rackham en WotC dropped out of the market). Playing with sci-fi tanks is just a lot more affordable in 15mm (or even 6mm), there are now more and more 15mm manufacturers poping up in the sci-fi and WWII field (probably due to the success of FoW).

50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick16 Jan 2011 9:28 a.m. PST

"Maybe US companies and consumers will realize that cheaper overseas made items aren't always the best options. Maybe we'll start making things in this country again…

Sure. Just as soon as "we" are willing to pay more for it.

I can print my next game in China, and have it on the shelves for forty bucks.

Or I can print it down the street, and it will be so prohibitively expensive that nobody on earth would buy it.

It is cheaper – much cheaper, in fact – to have it done on the other side of the world, than to have it done ten miles from my house. Welcome to the 21st century.

I would LOVE to be able to produce it locally. Not because I'm a xenophobe, but just because I would much rather be able to have regular contact with the people I'm doing business with, in my own language, in my own currency. It's easier and safer and fewer potential misunderstandings would result.

But I guarantee you that no wargamer would be willing to pay what that would cost.

sector5116 Jan 2011 9:38 a.m. PST

WGF is three years old, the google results you point at are who has it available now, big difference. Sure, I could have ordered it from the US, but have you any idea what shipping costs from the US and if I place a larger order what the extra taxes, import fees, and administration fees are like?

So it makes sense for you to order from European suppliers. Yes, OK that I understand, so what?

And yes I do understand precisely what the costs of bringing stuff into the UK is – I have been doing so for years. I am also happy – along with others – to meet your needs for WGF products, which I (and others) have been doing for years.

For me, last year I bought tape measures in China – free give-aways for customers – cost 45p each, 30p transport/taxes. The ones I was buying in the UK cost me £1.50 GBP each.

So – for me – China was the better deal.

sjwhite7216 Jan 2011 9:38 a.m. PST

If any company or person is using deceptive tactics to rip a company out from under its founder, do not do business with them.
Also, make publicly known which company or person is working against the interest of the founder.

Knowledge is power, and we need knowledge here and not rumors, bashing or speculation.

my 2 cents.

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 9:39 a.m. PST

I remember in the early 80's all the talk about Japan becoming the economic superpower of the world. Now it's China. As has been stated on various threads China has a shed load of internal issues facing it over the next few decades. From an aging population (with no plan to support it), internal political issues, pollution, increasing demand for increased wages and demand that the currency float at its actual level rather than its artificial one make its issues very serious obstacles to prosperity and growth. Time will tell.

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 9:45 a.m. PST

I suspect China's plan to support its aging population is the same as the UK's. Jack up the retirement age, cut state services, and have 24 hour freeview TV :)

Rod Langway16 Jan 2011 9:51 a.m. PST

Sure. Just as soon as "we" are willing to pay more for it.

I can print my next game in China, and have it on the shelves for forty bucks.

Or I can print it down the street, and it will be so prohibitively expensive that nobody on earth would buy it.

It is cheaper – much cheaper, in fact – to have it done on the other side of the world, than to have it done ten miles from my house. Welcome to the 21st century.

But I guarantee you that no wargamer would be willing to pay what that would cost.

And that is truly the heart of the matter, what we as consumers have come to perceive as "value". It's a simple pattern of behavior even the least capable aspiring social scientist can lock onto. If we are to change the paradigm, we have to make a conscious decision to do so. If we choose price and convenience over long-term domestic economic sustainability, then nothing will change (speaking as an American here, though this can easily be expanded to include most of the developed world).

Truth is, IMHO, we have been spoiled rotten as consumers for a long-time now, myself included. No need to toil in factories, we'll offshore it, just sit in a comfy air-conditioned office from 9-5 and still have the cash you need to purchase everything you don't. That may be fine for a percentage of the population, but I simply have never believed in the sustainability of a "service based economy", I'm sure there are many here who would passionately differ.

To bring this back on-topic, what I see in our industry, as I expressed previously, is not surprising. To give a micro focus to the argument, let us just examine the plastics companies in our hobby. There are those that perceive quality with a higher price tag as "value", and those that would rather pay less for figures that may be of a lesser grade, and see "value" in that. What is the dominant preference? Can that be used as a microcosm of our overall individual spending habits?

And to address another excellent point Schnurfel stated (as quoted above), we were not always hesitant to buy domestic, and pay the premium for doing so. One merely has to wonder if we can ever get that mindset back, and what would precipitate us doing so.

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 9:56 a.m. PST

Cold Warrior, I quite agree.

Cergorach16 Jan 2011 9:57 a.m. PST

@sector51
Who is you? What is years? Two out of three or less? Vini Vidi Vici for example wasn't selling WGF products in 2008 according to their website. Maelstrom has the WFG category, but as of yet there are no products in it, Wayland has recently (when the Shock Troopers went up for pre-order) added some of the products.

@Schnurfel
As a dutch man we are unfortunate enough to have a language that is only spoken by a relative few, so we are often 'forced' to speak in other folks's language. That isn't such a problem for English, because we are forced at school to learn the language (and to a lesser degree German and French), but Chinese just isn't on the curriculum, so in the West very few folks indeed speak Chinese (or one of it's many dialects). Working in foreign currency isn't exactly problematic either. But what often is (and what is often forgotten) is that your working under someone else's laws, which are often only available in the native tongue and if at all translated, might contain errors that do not correctly transfer the laws total intent. If there's a business dispute, you also have a problem. In other words, I like to do business with folks I can actually understand and whose laws I can actually read correctly.

@sjwhite72
A founder isn't some holy person you have to always honor, many, many founders have a good idea, but horrible business sense. That's why so many businesses fail in the first year, in this case the owner of the company is using his legal rights to the company to do things he wants to. I don't know the numbers, but apparently the owner feels that Tony isn't doing everything he could to make the owner more money. That Lonnie has 'turned' against the guy who hired him, might sound horrible to a lot of folks, but clearly they have very little experience in big business. The folks who hire you might not always the most competent people, 'loyalty' only goes so far…

@CelticPagan
The IP must lay with the company, anything else is just irresponsible. If it's not the folks who made that deal and invested in it have pretty much no business sense and I would call them fools!

50 Dylan CDs and an Icepick16 Jan 2011 9:58 a.m. PST

"No need to toil in factories, we'll offshore it, just sit in a comfy air-conditioned office from 9-5 and still have the cash you need to purchase everything you don't. That may be fine for a percentage of the population, but I simply have never believed in the sustainability of a "service based economy"

Sure, but would you like to give up that comfy office and go work in a factory?

Me neither.

So here we are.

Rod Langway16 Jan 2011 10:01 a.m. PST

I remember in the early 80's all the talk about Japan becoming the economic superpower of the world. Now it's China. As has been stated on various threads China has a shed load of internal issues facing it over the next few decades. From an aging population (with no plan to support it), internal political issues, pollution, increasing demand for increased wages and demand that the currency float at its actual level rather than its artificial one make its issues very serious obstacles to prosperity and growth. Time will tell.

John,

Succinct points, which is why I am leery to cast ominous forecasts China's way. However there do exist stark differences between the China of today, and the Japan of a generation ago. Japan was only seeking to compete at certain levels internationally, she did not become the reservoir of labor that China has (globalization was merely starting back then). China also has a serious gender imbalance, combined with a well-planned and executed military build-up, focusing not on direct competition with the U.S., but survivability in a future short high-intensity conflict limited to her geopolitical sphere on influence.

Now one could argue all day whether or not China has territorial ambitions she will seek to back with military force (Taiwan, Spratly and Paracel Islands, etc.), but the way China is emerging makes a far more compelling case of concern then Japan several years ago, at least in my humble opinion at any rate.

China could very well collapse under her own weight, or seek to strike out in an attempt to rally her population should a serious domestic crisis arise. As you say, only time will tell.

Rod Langway16 Jan 2011 10:02 a.m. PST

I suspect China's plan to support its aging population is the same as the UK's. Jack up the retirement age, cut state services, and have 24 hour freeview TV :)

Doesn't EVERYONE want 24 hour freeview TV? :-)

Cardinal Ximenez16 Jan 2011 10:10 a.m. PST

>>>But when the brains/heart/soul of the company makes a conscious decision to go from a 40% to 4% ownership, you know there is a LOT wrong with the company, about which we have no clue.


Not necessarily. It's called an exit strategy.

DM

Personal logo Dentatus Sponsoring Member of TMP Fezian16 Jan 2011 10:13 a.m. PST

Tried to read the letter….

Tony, you need to take a deep breath, organize your thoughts and present the facts clearly. I'm still not sure what happened or why it's posted, other than to vent. If you have a legitimate case, find a good attorney.

I do wish you all the best personally. You had a five-star idea and were a tremendous asset to the hobby.

Best Regards

Rod Langway16 Jan 2011 10:14 a.m. PST

Sure, but would you like to give up that comfy office and go work in a factory?

Me neither.

So here we are.

Spot on, but I fear if things continue the way they are, in the near future we may not have a choice. We are a resilient and adaptable bunch if nothing else…..

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 10:14 a.m. PST

Interesting perspective you chaps in the US have. Here in the UK we've already 'declined', ergo we don't have to worry about the challenge to our position, just deal with the fall-out. IMO one of the worst things Mrs Thatcher did to us was to allow 24 hour TV in the UK – quality declines to bland 'reality' TV. As Lennon said (that's John, not Valdimir), 'keep you doped with religion and sex and TV and you think you're so clever and classless and free. But your still… peasants as far as I can see'. Once a nation loses the hard work and sacrifice and personal challenge ethic, its finished. Ask the Romans. Ask the Spartans. Welcome to the post-literate world where no one can fix anything or make anything we just consume the lowest possible denomiator and… Oh, I appear to have turned into my father :) Seriously, change happens

Rod Langway16 Jan 2011 10:25 a.m. PST

Gary,

Well at least you had a few hundred years as the premier world power, we may be eclipsed at less than 80 (or less than 30 if you view the world during the Cold War as being bipolar in nature) :-)

Great powers come and go, it's always the same pattern, someone is always waiting to fill the void. You do point out the interesting contrast however, the UK went through this process in the few decades following WWII, we may just be entering our phase (and we still may rebound, you never know). But I do think that rather than heading for a new unipolar, or even bipolar world, it will be multi-polar, at least for a generation or two.

sjwhite7216 Jan 2011 10:25 a.m. PST

Cergorach,
I have been on the recieving end of people like Lonnie's scemes, which is why I am a manager in a donut shop and not doing the quality assurance work in pharmaceuticals.
So, unless it comes out that Tony was the a&^$#lo, I am taking his side.

Cincinnatus16 Jan 2011 10:30 a.m. PST

I have a very good relationship with a woman from China and have the opportunity to discuss the real China with her often. It's not pretty. Younger generations do not go through the same brainwashing that the older ones did and are less likely to blindly put forth the greater good over their own well being. It will be very interesting to see how things go.

As for the specific case of WF – a whole lot of you have zero clue what you are talking about when it comes to business. Access to capital is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE for a business like WF. There aren't many options other than to give up control. In many cases, you are selling your soul to the devil but when it's the only option, what else can you do?

Tony's sin is likely being blind to the fact that there are people in the world who will take advantage of a situation if they see they can make a buck.

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 10:37 a.m. PST

Cold Warrior, what I'd like to see is people all over the world treated equally and with dignity and prosperity. Old Trekkie, I know, but that's it. Global integration has been underweigh since c.1450. It's accelerated in the last 100 years. What's NEW is the internet (based on English) and the succession of dominant world powers for 200 years using the same 'linga franca' – which emerging superpower India also uses. As new translation apps are developed I'm sure a 'Babelfish' is about only 50 years away. As the Chinese say, 'we live in interesting times'. I'm sure when printing an mass literacy emerged people thought it was a bad development then. Great Powers do rise and fall. It's how we deal with it that marks us out.

Top Gun Ace16 Jan 2011 10:40 a.m. PST

Looks like another nail in the coffin…..

ScoutII16 Jan 2011 10:48 a.m. PST

The IP must lay with the company, anything else is just irresponsible. If it's not the folks who made that deal and invested in it have pretty much no business sense and I would call them fools!

Surprisingly often, with these types of ventures it does not though. Since things started as a group of friends – often the proper contracts are not written regarding works for hire. If there is not an explicit transfer of the copyright from the creator to the employer – the creator retains the copyright.

Since friends rarely say – OK, here you need to sign this contract…it doesn't often get taken care of. If the Chinese concern didn't double check things during there initial entrance to the situation, they may not actually have independent production rights to the miniatures if Tim Barry (the sculptor) is no longer on the staff.

Dasher16 Jan 2011 10:50 a.m. PST

I don't mean to sound cold-hearted, but I thought this was an excellent point:

As for the specific case of WF – a whole lot of you have zero clue what you are talking about when it comes to business. Access to capital is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE for a business like WF. There aren't many options other than to give up control. In many cases, you are selling your soul to the devil but when it's the only option, what else can you do?

The obvious answer is, "You don't sell your soul to the devil."
When did it become more acceptable to compromise in the name of "fast growth" rather than simply do without while building up reserves and then expand on one's own?
I don't know the whole story of WF's decision to sell controlling interest in their company, but I know a Work For Hire contract when I see one, in any form… they are "quit-claims", pure and simple, and I won't sign those, either.
That has closed more than a few doors to me over the years, but what I have published has remained mine.
Moral: Do not EVER sign a "Work For Hire" OR sell controlling interest in your dreams, and you will never have to look back and say "Had I but known…"

Go0gle16 Jan 2011 10:50 a.m. PST

Whatever the circumstance, mistakes, and reasoning…the whole situation is simply sad.

People are going to suffer for it, are suffering for it, both directly and indirectly. Just more misery for a stack of it that is already, IMO, much too large.

Cheriton16 Jan 2011 10:52 a.m. PST

The boxes are all packed and ready to go? So am I, and many others, going to ultimately see the 10 boxes of Marlburians (paid for nearly 3 months ago, BTW) in my post office?

Or is time to consider the (unlikely) prospect of some sort of $$$ recoup? Somehow I have a feeling that Paypal & VISA will find (ample) grounds for having no obligations in this maelstrom.

basileus6616 Jan 2011 10:54 a.m. PST

Sorry to hear about WF problems, but to be honest their product wasn't that good. I bought the British and Zulus when they were released and they were a huge dissapointment. Never bought WF products again. It wasn't a problem of bad customer service, but of sub-pair product quality.

sector5116 Jan 2011 11:01 a.m. PST

@sector51
Who is you? What is years? Two out of three or less? Vini Vidi Vici for example wasn't selling WGF products in 2008 according to their website.

To answer your questions, I have been importing from the USA for at least 5 years.

Never heard of Vini Vidi Vici, perhaps they sell better Republican/Imperial Roman figures.

The comparison between WF and Warlord Games figures is meaningless (different periods), unless you want to compare the gallic/barbarian figures. Me, I opted for the WF figures as I just don't believe in figures where they open their arms in an invitation to be killed. So even if you spend more money you can still get it wrong.

I looked at the North Star site a couple of weeks ago and there was only one WF box on it – I thought, wow thats strange. I have no idea why Nick at North Star dumped the range but it looks like it was a good move.

That being said, I have been told where there is a large stock of WF product in the UK, so if I run out I will go there for re-stock.

As a dutch man we are unfortunate enough to have a language that is only spoken by a relative few, so we are often 'forced' to speak in other folks's language.

I asked a Dutch chap working with me, why the Dutch were so good with languages? He said, you know anyone who wants to speak Dutch?

BlackWidowPilot Fezian16 Jan 2011 11:05 a.m. PST

"Betrayal and hurt feelings are an unfortunate fact of business life. If any of you know of a field which is free of those elements please let me know, I am in."


Degree and frequency, just like anything else in the universe.

"The question is not whether Tony has a right to air his accusations in an open letter; of course he does. The question is whether it is wise (or professional) to do so."


I refer you back to my original comment and those of others who pointed out the central issue of *reputation.*


"I would like to again return to my point: What did Tony hope to accomplish with his post? I think anyone who moves in active business circles in the real business world would find this open letter shocking and childish, even if it is factually correct in every detail. Bad form. Bad idea. Period."


I respectfully reject your assertion here utterly. Right from wrong matters, as does reputation. I as a consumer like to make informed decisions as to which business gets my hard-earned dollars. I for one don't care to deal with the unethical, as that propensity to stick a stiletto in a co-worker or employer's ribs will translate to sticking it in the consumer's ribs if such a person thinks there's a percentage in it.


"Honesty and integrity are wonderful, desirable traits, and they pay long-term dividends in the business world. But you do not have a right not to be offended; you do not have a right not to be treated badly; you do not have a right to expect that everyone will deal with you honestly and fairly."


OK, I'll bite, so if your physician treats you badly, following your logic you have no right to get upset, and you've no right to expect honesty in your dealings with him? How about your attorney? Your child's dentist? They're all businesses ya know…evil grin

"If those are your expectations, then you are slashing your own wrists, in a business sense, the moment you get involved."


No, you have reasonable expectations that you'll be dealing with *honest* people, not shysters. Your entire argument is simply the intellectual bankruptcy of the corporate raiders who have among other things brought us a host of current socio-economic woes from the mortgage meltdown onward. Yes, caveat emptor. *And* it is perfectly reasonable to expect honesty in business dealings, and that is in fact why we have laws governing such activities to provide some reasonable protection for consumers and business owners alike from shystering by the unscrupulous.


"I am sad for Tony. I am sad for his friends. I am sad for Wargames Factory. I am sad for the gaming community."


I'll take your word for it.


"And yet it is tough to explain how such an open letter helps anyone or anything.

Bad. Idea."


How does it help? In business, *reputation* is everything. If Tony launched a new venture, his good name would be suspect to a great many who were unwilling or unable to dig a little bit beyond the surface and the smarmy press announcements of the "new management" at WF, pure and simple.

In business, reputation *IS* everything, and *integrity* and *fair dealing* do matter, and are not at all unreasonable to not merely expect, but demand.

But then again, what do I know, as I agree with a certain public figure here in the US that stated that the fine print of credit card and mortgage contracts is nothing more than the equivalent of the bushes that robbers hide behind before they jump out and take your wallet.


Leland R. Erickson

Old Bear16 Jan 2011 11:07 a.m. PST

I'm afraid I'm with Basilieus. If we were talking about a quality player like the Perrys I'd be sincerely concerned but having bought a few WF products I was left unimpressed. This won't have any effect on the plastics side of the business, but Tony has certainly stuck the knife deep into the carcass of WF. His intention all along with this 'open' letter, perhaps?

Old Bear16 Jan 2011 11:10 a.m. PST

How does it help? In business, *reputation* is everything. If Tony launched a new venture, his good name would be suspect to a great many who were unwilling or unable to dig a little bit beyond the surface and the smarmy press announcements of the "new management" at WF, pure and simple.

Leland, isn't Tony's reputation as of now a man who couldn't create a successful business plan, who is a poor judge of character, and who hasn't got the professionalism to take a big deep breath before committing his personal angst to print?

BlackWidowPilot Fezian16 Jan 2011 11:12 a.m. PST

No, "Old Bear," that was certainly and clearly not his intention. Tony was working his tail off to make WF a success, to improve product quality and the rate of new releases. Each successive release showed marked improvement of the previous.

This was the act of one or more individuals acting for their own selfish interests to shut out the very people who made WF a promising new company, consequences be damned.

If anybody stuck a knife in a carcass, it clearly wasn't a knife in the hand of Tony Reidy sticking it to his own company that he had created and worked like a fiend to make successful. This is a case of proverbial homicide, "Old Bear," not a suicide caper.


Leland R. Erickson

sector5116 Jan 2011 11:14 a.m. PST

As regards how to get the capital to start a business, I know one story from my family.

We approached the Alchemy Partners, got the capital to start the business and they got 60% of the company. It worked well, everyone made millions and there was no interest from Alchemy from taking over the business along the way, until the end. Along the way, a couple of people were sidelined and in the end, my father was pushed out (and had 8 strokes shortly thereafter). But to me that seems all part of the rough and tumble of business life.

BlackWidowPilot Fezian16 Jan 2011 11:16 a.m. PST

"Leland, isn't Tony's reputation as of now a man who couldn't create a successful business plan, who is a poor judge of character, and who hasn't got the professionalism to take a big deep breath before committing his personal angst to print?"


I suppose that's one way to look at it, if you want to dismiss a whole range of issues brought up in this affair, from the alleged dishonesty of certain employees to issues of ethics and simple human decency.

I suppose if one doesn't try to put themselves in Tony's shoes, they could agree with you.

Guess I'm just not that "professional" and cutthroat enough a businessman to agree with you, "Old Bear."evil grin

Respects.


Leland R. Erickson

LeadLair7616 Jan 2011 11:16 a.m. PST

Personally I think the unprofessional nature of the open letter is certainly understandable. The man just had the rug snagged out from under him. I think we can all understand that. It's gotta hurt and it's gotta hurt bad. Bad business decisions aside you have to feel for someone who this happens to and I don't blame Tony for lashing out.

What he did might not help but it is understandable. It also isn't like he has gotten on the forums and started trash talking people. He told his side of the story and left it at that.

BlackWidowPilot Fezian16 Jan 2011 11:19 a.m. PST

"But to me that seems all part of the rough and tumble of business life."


"sector," I agree that's how things often *are* in the business world, however, I am also of the mind that that is what is fundamentally wrong with the business world as well.


Leland R. Erickson

"I don't know which species is worse, Burke… you don't see them trying to *bleep!* each other over a percentage…"

- Captain Ellen Ripley, Aliens

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 11:23 a.m. PST

Me? My business plan is to stay small and safe and in control. I've had offers, I'm open to offers, but as a '5 to 9er' I am free to walk away. ATEOTD the gaming 'industry' is but a tax-deductable hobby. I see no wargames manufacturers living on yachts in the south of France. Getting back to the geopolitical thread – the British Empire. 'The worst case of strategic overstretch in history'. Feet on the ground as you reach for the stars.

Runicus Fasticus16 Jan 2011 11:25 a.m. PST

I have tride to find words to express how I feel about what has happened at Wargames Factory and to Tony Reidy and the rest his crew.
I know Tony is a good man and he has had his dream crushed ,and he has every right to be angry,so I hope these few words will bring a smile
to him and his co-workers who have been so wronged.

Deleted by Moderator

Runicus Fasticus


LONG LIVE TONY REIDY……RIGHTFUL KING OF WARGAMES FACTORY

Mr Elmo16 Jan 2011 11:25 a.m. PST

I guess this tells me I should get Gripping Beast Plastic Vikings instead.

As I consumer, I want a nice product with a stable supply. What was that other plastics company: Warlord?

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 11:31 a.m. PST

Mr Elmo, take out a subscription to 'Miniature Wargames' and get a free pack (I know, I write for them).

SonofThor16 Jan 2011 11:37 a.m. PST

If this is how it's going down, then I'm going vote with my wallet. I normally boycott products made in China as a general rule but I made an exception with WF. Now there's no reason to make that exception.

Wyatt the Odd Fezian16 Jan 2011 11:39 a.m. PST

Not knowing the full depth of the situation, I can't claim to have the right answer, but based on having run my own business for over 15 years, I can say that there comes a point when you've exhausted all options, tried to do the right thing and kept it private, but you've now come to the point where the other party is causing damage to your reputation either actively or passively and you really have no other choice but to get your side out in the open.

There is a small possibility that doing so will lead to a resolution – Uniformology is an example of such a turnaround. But, at the very least you've put out a warning to your consumer base that the official party line may not be true. In that regard, this open letter has done a service to those who have (long) outstanding orders and they can make an informed decision on how to proceed. Tony's (and Lonnie's) future in the industry depend solely on reputation.

This industry relies on two factors: products and reputation. If you're big enough and produce lots of products that are at least "good enough" to satisfy the fan base, you can get away with a less-than-stellar reputation. But, for small companies, both are vital with the latter factor making up for limited product range if the company is perceived as moving in the right direction.

In joint ventures where the headquarters is based within China, the 51% rule is in force, and it does carry over to other overseas Chinese investments where they can do it. This is causing a LOT of international business friction as the 51% Chinese ownership clause often means that the host country (which is providing the natural resources and the labor) is often left with less-than-promised results.

I currently work at a company which utilizes three Chinese manufacturers. While there is no percentage of Chinese ownership, I've seen them play some games when we pull back some business aspects. We're not big enough to threaten to walk away, so we wind up paying for some of decisions made on their end without consulting us.

China has some issues that may cause a repeat of the 19th century. The coastal areas are becoming more closely tied to their international partners. With many countries no longer having a domestic industry (steel for example), China becomes the sole source. Some countries, like Australia, can step in, to replace suppliers (like rare earth), but that can come with an added cost.

Whether the cost benefits of working with China are actually savings is a macroeconomic issue.

Wyatt

Gary Mitchell Sponsoring Member of TMP16 Jan 2011 11:42 a.m. PST

Wyatt makes lots of good points. I guess president Roosevelt's 'open door' policy is too late to shut :)

Oh Bugger16 Jan 2011 12:02 p.m. PST

"China has some issues that may cause a repeat of the 19th century."

Wyatt, Do you mean the Opium Wars?

napthyme16 Jan 2011 12:19 p.m. PST

well needless to say Lonnie is not getting any money from me or my company as long as he is in charge of WF.

Space Monkey16 Jan 2011 1:07 p.m. PST

I'd be curious to hear what some folks here think 'professionalism' means…
I've heard that term for years… used to all sort of different intents by different sorts of people… and I have hardly ever trusted them after hearing it come out their mouths. It reminds me of that quote about 'Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel'

Usually I've taken it to mean some robotic/military adherence to the company rules/hierarchy… a shorthand version of 'shut-up and take it!'

It's got nothing to do with ethics… we can see that from various successful companies that do fine despite/because of odious practices.
It's not creativity… we see that from various successful businesses that lie, cheat and steal to acquire ideas that aren't their own.
It's got little to do with being human or humane… again, those successful businesses…

All I can figure is it's a form of business-sense… 'this behavior is good for my business'… that's all, nothing exalted about it. Not deserving of respect except in terms of growing a business, regardless of other concerns.
It doesn't speak anything of character to say 'he is professional'… it doesn't even tell you he'd be good to do business with.

I agree the letter was not 'professional'… it serves no good purpose in that vein. Not even to saving the reputation of the fellow writing it because it makes him look a bit emotional ('professionalism' doesn't go well with emotions).
'Oops, sorry, you appear to have let yourself slip into a bit of humanity there.'

So no, the letter wasn't 'professional'… but my only argument that the author might want to retract is is that it might hurt him personally.

sector5116 Jan 2011 1:15 p.m. PST

I'd be curious to hear what some folks here think 'professionalism' means…

To me, you take your emotions out of the area and treat people as you would expect treatment from another person in the same position.

I once asked a doctor for a second opinion on the drugs I was being given and was immediately shown the door. I found another doctor and he agreed that I didn't need the drugs. I think I made the right choice.

Old Bear16 Jan 2011 1:31 p.m. PST

I suppose that's one way to look at it, if you want to dismiss a whole range of issues brought up in this affair, from the alleged dishonesty of certain employees to issues of ethics and simple human decency.

Leland, I'm very much playing Devil's Advocate with my previous response. Whilst I suggest it is possible obviously I don't know, and I suspect there's a whole lot beneath the waterline with regards to this particular job.


I suppose that's one way to look at it, if you want to dismiss a whole range of issues brought up in this affair, from the alleged dishonesty of certain employees to issues of ethics and simple human decency.
I suppose if one doesn't try to put themselves in Tony's shoes, they could agree with you.


Frankly, just because Tony – lovely man that many are suggesting here – says something, it doesn't irrefutably make it true. I am perhaps something of a cynic but when a number of people tell us Tony is a highly savvy and smart businessman, then either he really did put finger to keyboard in a heated moment which I'd put good money on he ends up regretting, or he knew exactly what he wanted to achieve.

I'd be curious to hear what some folks here think 'professionalism' means…


@ Venusboys3

When it comes to this particular part of business professionalism I have always been taught that you never wash your dirty laundry in public, because no good can possibly come of it. For one thing it seriously danmages your chances of working in the same industry again because you get a reputation for being indiscreet. Assuming he is aware of this train crash of a thread I'd guess the Chinese guy (who is quoted as being a well-heeled gent by all accounts and therefore no schmuck)involved is using some choice local dialect at such an ill advised outburst.

As I said before, whatever else, in business terms no good can come out of this.

Regards

Ian

Montys Boys16 Jan 2011 1:42 p.m. PST

Didn't really have anything to say just wanted to get the 200th post

Poi00016 Jan 2011 1:49 p.m. PST

That's as good a reason for posting in this thread as any other.

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