"Public Statement from Wai Kee Hui Regarding Wargames Factory" Topic

*sends wife out for popcorn*

Wow I know this is a much more professional letter then what Tony and associates have been posting and certainly hope Wargames Factory succeeds

This aught to get pretty good.

That's a very well written, professional statement.

Very professional, the best of luck to you.

WOW that makes my troubles seem like nothing how many boxes do you have to sell to break even?

This sound rational. I like it. I am keeping an open mind about the whole thing. I think we are getting a clearer picture of what went on.

I got bored after the first four paragraphs, I do hope there was nothing I missed.

Hmmm…

I'm with Combat Painter. Gotta keep an open mind.

Wow – the $250K running tab is an eye-opener for me. I have no business background and my wife pays all of our bills, but I was surprised the money at stake in the business. Best wishes, Dean

No two ways about it there's two sides to every story! Rob.

(I think it was George Carlin who said this.)

So maybe this isn't the right time to ask, but when are the Persians coming out?

Nice to see the other side of the story.

Good luck with your venture and ignore some of the lesser life-forms that inhabit this site, they only get out once a year to visit Santa and his Elves, the rest of the time is spent weaving baskets and wearing their mom's clothes ;-)

Good luck with the transition. You seem to have inherited a nightmare.

Good luck and keep pressing forward…

P.

You laced up your combat boots and moved foward . With honour . Good luck in the future .

It is good to get the other side of the story. Good luck in your endeavor.

While yes this is a professional letter we're still left to accept it's veracity as much as we were the other letter offered earlier.

I'm skeptical of either position offered and I think perhaps that waiting to see how this company supports it's customers both new and old will be the deciding factor. Until then I think that I'll spend my money elsewhere.

I hope the new business model prospers and Wargames Factory continues to provide lots of lovely figures!

Thank you for letting us know the situation from your perspective. I, for one, wish you well!

Jesus the WF saga never ends does it? Of course all this two'n and throwing doesn't really disguise the fact that compared to all the other plastic miniatures (Perry, Victrex, Warlord and Immortal) out there WF products are ……well ……….a bit crap really…………

Right now where is the popcorn?

Im with Mbourgeois. Im not accepting this at face value. Ill wait and see what happens down the road. Til then Wargames Factroy wont see any of my money.

Professional attorney + professional writer = professionally written document.

However, a professionally written document is not in and of itself proof. It's merely a professionally written document.

Time for other side to respond, hopefully with an equally professional document.

And maybe somewhere in all of this we'll discover what we still don't have: proof.

Hmmm… Wargames Factory, the monetary black hole.

Tony says that they were left with no money to even post out the stock that did arrive (after delays etc meant much did not).

Wai Kee Hui says that they ran up a bill of over quarter of a million and that he had not received a single payment.

Triangle has an unpaid wages bill.

If nothing was paid to the manufacturer or packager or staff at the end (Howard's postings in various TMP threads)and yet there was no money in the company acounts where did all the money go to from the sales of products (and pre-purchases)?

Something does not add up.

Since this thread seems to be (generally) taking the tack of "it looks professional = 100% true", just remember folks that all that glitters is not gold.

If nothing was paid to the manufacturer or packager or staff at the end (Howard's postings in various TMP threads)and yet there was no money in the company acounts where did all the money go to from the sales of products (and pre-purchases)?

That was my question too.

Chuck

Sure glad I already got those legionaries I wanted BEFORE things went pear shaped. Frankly, a plague on both their houses.

*yawn* typical letter from a corporate lawyer….. I see both sides as bad as each other. Both are totally unprofessional. Wai Kee Hui contradicts himself within the first 3 paragraphs. Actions should speak louder than words in this sort of nonsense. I concur with combat painter, acarhj, mbourgeois and Parzival, let's see what the cat drags in next huh….

6sided I would like some of that popcorn too……

It's a good, professionally-written letter.

It's the sort of thing a lawyer might come up with if someone wanted to indicate that, no, none of the things I am accused of are true, officer.

Huge chunks of it are manifestly untrue. Nicely-written nonsense, but nonsense nevertheless.

Since I am one of the people lucky enough to be tarred by Wai Kee's brush for saying horrible things, let me answer those things that I know to be true.

First of all, I can't address the major financial issues. Wargames Factory under Tony Reidy's leadership. The company was always undercapitalized, and money was tight. Much of the time Tony and Tim Barry, the founding partners took no income themselves, but always ensured that the small part-time staff got their wages.

This was not the case once Wai Kee took over, which effectively happened in August 2010. His general manager, George Sivy, seemed unable to write cheques, find stamps and mail them out. The period between August and December, supposedly a time when new product would flow freely and money come in to pay off debts was actually one where Tim sent many, many files to China for tooling and almost nothing came back to sell. We'd initially assumed this was ineptitude on Wai Kee's part; now we are less certain.

None of the staff were paid after November.

On January 6th I was working to contact customers about ongoing delays in delivering product they had been waiting for since October. On January 7th I heard that Wai Kee, after an argument with Tony about failure to deliver the right sprues, had decided to close the company. I was to expect a formal letter of termination, and to submit a request for wages owed.

This didn't happen. I received no letter, the company did not close down, and the only response I got to my request for two months wages was Mr. Sivy's comment that I had "big balls" to ask for them. Apparently I didn't ask nicely enough.

Wai Kee tells us here that he is not a rich man. I too am not a rich man. He owes me the sum of $2,500 US for wages owed. I'd very much like to receive it.

He also owes my colleague John Morse for work done, as well as Thomas 'Zerotwentythree" and Andy, our art guy.

As to the good folks at Triangle -- well, if Wai Kee always planned to move his operation west, he certainly kept that quiet from everyone else. All the core WF team live in the north-east, and dealt with Triangle regularly. Now, as Defiance Games we intend to continue our partnership with Triangle. We'll pay that debt ourselves.

I do not know what kind of businessman will let bills go that high on a small business without putting the brakes on a lot quicker than they did. Sounds a bit fishy. I have a feeling if Tony was a lawyer and was not writing from the heart his letter would have sounded a lot better than it did. My only thought now is give me the popcorn as we wait for the final act for from S.S. Wargames Factory. What was that quote from Titanic "Iceburg right ahead"!

So long WF and thanks for the fish.

Now what did Lonnie post and then delete?

There are three sides to every story: one side, the other side, and the truth. I know Howard Whitehouse from when he was in the SE USA and he was a great player, gamemaster, and fellow. Hope he comes out OK somehow. The rest of these fellows I don't know from ADAM.

Unless there is a lawsuit that is not settled out of court we will never know the complete truth (and maybe not then.)

I won't say a pox on both houses but WF gets zip (wrong scale for my future buying) and as for the others… I will wait and see if they offer anything I want in scale I want before I think about buying anything. Right now it appears unlikely either will be offering any tempting morsels for my armies.

G_d, I am glad it didn't happen with any company I regularly buy from…

Gracias,

Glenn

I know Howard Whitehouse from when he was in the SE USA and he was a great player, gamemaster, and fellow. Hope he comes out OK somehow. The rest of these fellows I don't know from ADAM.

Ditto. And I would add that I have complete confidence in Howard's veracity.

What's a 'forensic accountant'?

So it's turning into a big Chinese businessman vs. small American hobbyists fight then?

Well, so much for the 6mm robots then, no matter who is in the wrong. And thanks to this, John Bear Ross has withdrawn the APCS and tanks he had on Shapeways that were originally done for WF as well.

"When elephants fight, the ants are the losers" indeed.

What's a 'forensic accountant'?

An accountant/detective

Just when I thought the new WF would just go away.
As for Defiant Games, let's sick their bugs on the Persians. BBWWWAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

I don't see how any company could ever sell enough boxes of plastic figures to the wargame hobbyists to cover $250,000 of expenditures.

What does a box of WF figures cost? Divide $250K by that number to estimate the number of boxes that would need to be sold, and YIKES.

Meh…all this dirty laundry is starting to stink up this wargaming pub
Back to painting drinking playing, and arguing about napoleonic uniforms

OK, I looked it up and a box of Marlburians sells for $19.95 USD so say $20 USD a box. You would need to sell at least 12,500 boxes to earn revenue of $250K. Even more when you factor in the cost of goods sold.

Spring rolls, anyone? Crab Rangoon?

Yes, I know neither is "authentic" Chinese, but rather American variations/inventions. Neither is that letter, by the looks.

Allen

I still do not give a rat's behind about the internal power struggle that went on in WF. Just make some figures and get them to Game Shops. If you cfan produce high quality figures and actually deliver them, the rest of this will fade into the "nobody cares anymore" category.

You would need to sell at least 12,500 boxes to earn revenue of $250K. Even more when you factor in the cost of goods sold.

A good rule of thumb is that the cost of the product is 40% of the selling price. This allows the manufacturer to sell to a distributor, who then sells to a brick and mortar store, with each stage expecting about a 20% margin. Depending upon the distribution route, WF is making between 20% and 60% margin, and can expect to sell 21,000 to 62,000 boxes to make $250,000 profit.

I hate to say this, Mr. Hui, but I have half of a coin that I got from Morgan Brock in exchange for a case of Ramen noodles and a quart of Rum . . . .

"Great guy, earnest hobbyist, bad businessman" is not an unusual description in wargaming. The letter sounds plausible, and is far better stated than the overwrought accusations of the founder.

From personal experience, I can say that WF made good on my Marlburian order and even sent an additional box. The figures are quite nice and paint up beautifully. They are not "crap."

Howard has stated that he is not familiar with the financials, and ceding 51% of a company to an investor is almost always done because of debts, and unpaid bills. Why else would Mr.Reidy have signed the document, which was obviously enforceable?

I feel that no one here is a villain. It is a failed business model that the primary investor is trying to make good. I'm sure there is disappointment on the part of the founders, and Mr.Wai Kee Wui will make an earnest effort to recover what he can from his investment. He would be well served to forbid Mr. Mullins from making any future public statements in the company's name.

I like the Marlburian figures and will buy more-especially if they do cavalry of equal quality.

I make no judgement of the character or honesty of any participants in this venture-it is just a failed business model and it has been handled by some of the involved parties in a VERY poor manner. None of the public accusations help the resolution of a business problem-and have made it worse than it needed to be. For that reason alone, I suspect this version is somewhat closer to the truth.

I know and like Howard Whitehouse.

Good Luck to new owners.
Please now concentrate on getting quality product out to the wargame community. In all honesty, you are lagging behind the Victrix and Perry quality, and now Gripping Beast are in the game.

Convert Walrus you hit the nail right on the head:
Wai Kee Hui = $40,000,000

Staff of former WF = average Joe's

So who is the real victims here, aside from former customers who had to fight for their refunds and/or orders, and the current customers who have received incomplete orders and boxes missing parts? Not the Chinese Millionaire, that's for sure. He doesn't have to worry about the mortgage, food, gas money, fixing up the house, things for the children, etc… Tony, Tim, Howard and John all do. Worse, and forgive me for saying this Howard, is Triangle, the charity that works with the disabled, whom Wai Kee has seen fit to not pay.

So when average people go up against a multi-millionaire, it is David v Goliath, but like in that myth, David, or in this case, Defiance Games will win. Unions and Animal lovers were already offended by Wai Kee's ad he had Mr Mullins place here. Now that the info is out that he doesn't pay his workers and stiffs a Charity for the Disabled, he isn't about to win any Humanitarian of the year awards.

I incurred some heat on TGN when I responded to this the first time from the heart – so I'll take a breath and wait it out until I can form a more "appropriate" response to the many blatant lies and misrepresentations in this letter from George Sivy or his lawyer (no it wasn't written by Wai Kee Hui – even though his name is on it)

Unlike Wai Kee – who waited until WF released Lonnie Mullin's ill-advised diatribe against American unions and kittens on TMP and (from my perspective) hopes to use this announcement as a way to deflect from his complete mismanagement of WF (Lonnie Mullin's ongoing rants on Facebook and TMP, the mis-sizing of files we delivered to him in Q3 2010, the labeling of 28mm figures as 1/48??, the engineering mistakes on molds, the poor design of those molds – i.e. putting plastic gates in the middle of important details, the mis-packing of products, the mis-printing of packaging (i.e. printing a box that has a side that says "Text and Images to Go Here"), the failure to pay legitimate debts to vendors, the shenangians around the Alien Suns trademark, etc. etc. – unlike Wai Kee I feel it's important to respond to allegations (especially false ones) as soon as they become public.

But for now I'm going to hold off – I'm not going to talk about the huge amount of money sent to Wai Kee's various holding companies for plastic work – or the thousands spent on George Sivy when he literally begged for money because he needed to pay his mortgage – or talk about the insanely long conversations on Skype in the middle of the night about how screwed up our molds were and how far off the final product was from Tim Barry's sculpture and the various excuses that went with them along with promises to improve.

Yes, it's a soap opera – I'm the first to admit it. But it's also an incredibly simple story that's fairly black and white. Did the WF team (including myself) make mistakes – definitely. Were we victims of Wai Kee, George, and their lawyers? Were all the tooling problems – shallow detail, fudged molds (notice the half-arm on the Persian sprue?), etc. along with all the shipping delays a part of a deliberate plan to sink the company in order to take it over? There were ongoing discussions since 2008 for a "joint venture" and an "investment" that were pushed out as a reason to just keep going.

But I'm going to wait – I want you all to know that there's a lot more to this story and just because a lawyer writes what appears to be a well thought, logical letter – doesn't mean the content of that letter is true.

Like most of you, I don't like all the drama over this – I had hoped Wai Kee and gang after taking the company would just go their own way and focus on operating the company – instead they seem to be focused on ex-employees. We're not sure why we're to blame for all the failures of the last 3 months since we we're a part of the company at that point. But I'm not going to sit here and NOT respond to the nonsense being spouted.

I do hope this all can go away – the original WF team (Howard Whitehouse, Tim Barry, John Morse, and myself) are focused on building a new company – Defiance Games – and we'd rather just roll up our sleeves and work on delivering great figures and games to the wargames community.

Thanks all – sorry to have this brought out again and hope it all goes away soon!

All the best,
Tony

Tony Reidy
Defiance Games
defiancegames.com

Well Mexican Jack Squint admitted the Triangle debt with his very last sentence so perhaps the rest is true also.