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"Historicon 2010 Relocates" Topic


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GoodBye25 Dec 2009 11:05 p.m. PST

WOW and here I forgot why I hated this place!

I will not be attending VF Hcon 2010, I would have attended B'more.

No loss really.

Dasher27 Dec 2009 9:20 p.m. PST

Valley Forge, cool!

I can visit the battlefield, go shopping with my wife at the mall, get some nice dinners… that is, if the new venue doesn't have the same problem Baltimore had…

The one overriding issue which was really the only reason I was going to pass on Historicon in Baltimore…

I'm just waiting to hear back from the two on-site hotels about it…

If they take pets, my wife and I will very likely be there with our two dogs.

If they don't, my regularly attended convention will continue to be Cold Wars at the pet-friendly Lancaster Host.

As for all the racial issue commentary… that was funny!

It's always amusing when someone throws out a race-baiting statement in a literally sophomoric ploy for attention.

Then there was the unbelievably pompous and pretentious overreactor who saw the ensuing blather as having any validity whatsoever. This was voiced as much hand-wringing and vowing to foreswear all association with such lowly wretches as we in "this hobby" ("What do YOU mean, "You people."?") who accommodate the darker, awful excesses of human depravity by tolerating such nastiness, boo hooooo---

Oh, forget it, I can't even type anymore, I'm just… laughing… too… hard.

Anyway, to those who think there is anything about this venue other than When, Where and How Much, here's a productive suggestion:

How about you kids have a nice big mug of "Get Over Yourself", and do something positive like run a game at the convention to help your hobby?

Funny!!!

Repiqueone28 Dec 2009 8:54 a.m. PST

All of this commentary seems to miss the point a bit, I think.

Why is Historicon 2010 in Valley Forge?

I doubt very much that it has much to do with unions, or crime, or race, or the great desirability of Suburban Philadelphia in mid-summer. Nor is it "better" than Baltimore.

It is a sheer act of desperation by a group of people that obviously are ill-equipped to handle business affairs-especially in a major US city. This was the amateur hour.

Consider the following:

1. There are professionals that hire on for affordable rates to negotiate contracts for conventions. They generally can get favorable rates and arrangements with the facilities and their unions, and minimize red-tape and work rules impacting the convention vendors and attendees.

In any case, the cost of this is one of the FIRST things that is calculated-PRIOR to signing a contract. Why were these professionals not contacted? I was part of the team that put on conventions in SF, New Orleans, Washington, Houston, Anaheim, and Miami-all union-no problems. All were 15-18,000 attendee conventions. We hired some people that knew what they were doing. It saves money and unnecessary disasters in the long run.

2. Most hotels provide parking along with their rooms-this was true at Baltimore, and no hotel was very far from the hall. The room rates were not appreciably different from Valley Forge-for what were undoubtedly superior hotels. There are issues of guarantees for rooms-again a standard part of planning and certainly to be settled PRIOR to signing a contract. Inexperience and lack of knowledge-and the failure to hire people that knew what they were doing is the problem-not the Baltimore Hotels.

3. The idea was to provide access to the convention in a major city-providing media exposure for the hobby, AND convenience to the attendees that come from beyond the magic 300 mile circle. Western and Southern attendees are easily 20-30% of the attendees( maybe more), and many fly into the closest airport to attend.

Valley Forge provides none of this. It will be isolated from the media of Philadelphia, and is nearly an hour from the Philly airport-if the schuykyll isn't totally jammed. It is a day trip into the city-which has a higher number of crimes annually than Baltimore! Attendees flying in will get stuck with high car rental fees, and city driving in the most dysfunctional city on the East Coast. Things have not changed much since W.C. Fields made Philly the punchline of his epitaph. It combines the WORST of all possible outcomes.

Baltimore was an easy 30 minute Taxi or Train ride into the harbor area. Valley Forge requires a car rental and God help the first time visitor!

Valley Forge offers FEWER historical and recreational activities than the Harbor. It is a largely urbanized location with few attractions (and another run-down Mall is not an attraction that can match Camden Yards, The Baltimore Aquarium, Fort McHenry, or The Constellation).

3. Why, when most convention facilities are scheduled years in advance, is the Valley Forge Center available a mere 6 months prior and in the high tourism summer months? Because it is a hole! It is a run down facility that has difficulty getting bookings, even from minor groups, and the local hotels are decidedly second class.

The ONLY reason it was chosen is that it was available, cheap, and within the magic 300 mile circle. The only reason it needed to be chosen was that the people charged with the running of the convention and HMGS-East are demonstrably incompetent.

And there is the problem. There is no guarantee this sort of screw-up won't continue to happen and condemn the convention to East Jesus locales, backwater hotels, bad restaurants, and added difficulties for everyone except those that are locals (however deserving they are of our sympathies).

Then again, maybe the hobby is better served to stay in the shallow end of the pool and avoid the media exposure and sophistication of cities and the people that work there. It appears our English counter-parts have no problem with London, and successful conventions are run out West in Metro areas such as LA and Seattle, and that Comic Book collectors, Doll House builders, Model Railroaders, and even Quilters can flourish in Gotham, but American East Coast wargamers seemingly can't.

It is VERY ironic that a hobby group that celebrates leadership and decision-making; that honors skill, and courage in the face of fear and doubt, has so little leadership, skill, courage, and clear abilities at making good decisions.

Stay in the sticks-until the HMGS-East gets some leaders, or can hire them.

vojvoda23 Feb 2010 2:49 p.m. PST

Bob,
Spot on as always.
VR
James Mattes

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