"Salute Coordinator Resigns" Topic

I wonder if he's related to Larry?

LOL…..

Shame that he felt he had to go. I would have thanked the re-enactors as well, polite thing to do.

Christ can`t we let this go, its old news, this is not a government apologising for slavery, invading Iraq, brutalising POWs., poisoning water courses, its not even real life, Its a wargaming show.

I have now seen nothng in the press which was my only worry as it would have been hyped up as only the British press can do.

It is a bit late to regret it dont you think, a bit like closing the door after the horse has bolted, he isnt going to effect how the re-enactors feel or what they portray as their hobbies. The Publication is a dead link so who leaked the info?

stand by for more sensationalism…I think not

Completely disagree with you Justin. The fact he admitted supporting the sales of this obscene merchandise made his position untenable. He clearly showed that his judgement was poor.

Writing that email two days after the show and at a time many wargaming message boards were full of complaints about the re-enactors was a gross error and gives the impression that he is in no way sorry for inviting them to Salute.

This email undermines the apology.

Phil

I meant to say:

Very few of us have ever really been mad with the Warlords. Lots of us ARE mad at these so-called reenactors, because they dress up kids as Hitler Youth and sell merchandise glorifying Hitler.

That said, this email was not appropriate, and I would say is the one big error Warlords made, aside perhaps from not more exhaustively researching this reenactor group before inviting them.

BANG!

Subject now dead, it has ceased to exist, it is no more, its pushing up the daises etc, etc.

Thanks

Glen Hayward

Move along nothing more to read here…….please!

"Move along nothing more to read here…….please!"

So if you're starting of the Python skit quotes leads to a landslide, you don't want to be blamed?

PS, Dont mention the War!!

It's OK – he's from Barcelona.

Sad that it had to come to this… obviously freedom of choice isnt a big quality desired by many here. Whether you agreed with the group or not it was their right to do it. Its like anything else… if you dont like it keep walking until you find something you do like.

I wish that folks could bring the curtain down on this topic, it seems that too many people are after a pound of flesh, well they've got it now. Let's hope that this is the end of it, otherwise it will overtake the "300" postings, if it hasn't already.

It's got a long way to go before it catches up with "Contains What?" though.

In all fairness, people were more ed at Larry Dunn's avoidance on explaining why he wouldn't allow Too Fat Lardies rules on Wikipedia.

There were days of nearly a 6-12 threads a day on the subject. Just to put things in perspective. And Two Fat Lardies is not a symbol of hate and the death of millions of civilians.

Anarch, How are you mate, havent heard form you for ages :0) hope you are well

Karl

Pretty good… I have been working in a travelling carnivale wrestling bears. J/K… between testing and the end of soccer season I have been very very very busy.

Perhaps people should remember that without people like Steve Dunn and the warlords and (other show organisers around the world) who no doubt put many hundreds of hours into organising the show and are not paid salarys .

"You wouldn't have any shows to go to"

and therefore nothing to complain about apart from the lack of shows.

I can see from reading the threads the main complaints were about the Kids dressed as Hitler youth and the sale of Nazi related merchandise.Which I would of found equally tasteless.

The Warlords ballsed up by not checking exactly what the reanactors were putting on,and they have apologised for this.(They won't make that mistake again)

Bye all accounts it's still a great show and
if I get the chance in the future I'll be there.

Kutusov

My God! Pages and pages and pages of this crap, and still no end in sight!

Give it a rest people, I haven't jumped in until now (nor did I ever have a right to, I WASN'T THERE!), but day after day of "SALUTE" "NAZIS" "SALUTE" "NAZIS"……

This whole thing has smelled of a witch-hunt/crusade from day one IMHO, everyone got their heads on pikes, and still it doesn't end…..

geez, let it die already….

Happy now?

It doesn't have as much spam in it as Spam Spam Spam Sausage Spam Eggs and Spam!

And now for something completely different?

Oh, you're no fun anymore!

Don't be so flippant about this. It's only a matter of time until it's anything related to Germany and Italy during the war. You'll be using GW Orcs against your valiant Allied figures.

Just a question: Why do some people object to others commenting on this subject just because they weren't there? Seems odd to me. It's not like it's conjecture or gossip or rumour, the facts and photos are there for all to see. This is a small hobby and many are concerned if something seems to shed a negative light on it. Would it have been unacceptable to me to have said "seems like it was a great show lads, well done", just because I wasn't there?
Great shame this has led to a resignation.

Do we know it's a resignation? How do we know he wasn't asked to resign? Maybe he resigned on his own will because he has strong feelings that the re-enactors were a good thing?

Congratulations to the TMP lynch mob, well done, you should all feel very proud of yourselves. You can now all sit back and relax in your own hypocritical smugness.

Shame. He has done a good job over the years.
I know one of the re-enactors.. the old fellow who dresses up as the SS Doctor. He owns the SS Mercedes Ambulance, which was at the show. It is a real SS Ambulance and he feels it would be a shame to alter it in any way. He thinks he would look a bit odd in jeans and t-shirt showing off the vehicle. AFAIK he isn't a neo nazi, just a vehicle collector with a very nice old ambulance.
Maybe next year they'll get the Desert Raiders Association and their chums from the Afrika Korps who appear at Beltring. Lots of nice vehicles and no Hitler Youth to upset those attending.

Congratulations to the TMP lynch mob, well done…

Did anyone on TMP ask for Dunn to resign???

"Congratulations to the TMP lynch mob"…

Hmmmm. To have that kind of influence does that make us an organisation or a community notice board…?

Oh, old topic, sorry.

Wow, harsh news.

I've really enjoyed this first class show over the years and would like to pass on to Stephen a hearty 'THANKS MATE' from me and my son for all the work he's put so that the likes of us will have a good time. We appreciate it.

Steve and Joel (age 11)

"Congratulations to the TMP lynch mob, well done, you should all feel very proud of yourselves. You can now all sit back and relax in your own hypocritical smugness"

No. I sit back and relax thinking that I will need not to share breathing space in my favourite show with a bunch of nostalgic ubermensch that rejoice wearing uniforms of a band of criminals that intervene in the cold blood murder of 6 million people.

Completely disagree with you Justin. The fact he admitted supporting the sales of this obscene merchandise made his position untenable. He clearly showed that his judgement was poor.

Writing that email two days after the show and at a time many wargaming message boards were full of complaints about the re-enactors was a gross error and gives the impression that he is in no way sorry for inviting them to Salute.

This email undermines the apology.

I certainly disagree. It is always right to thank people for their efforts and whilst lots of people felt felt that having the re-enactors to Salute was the wrong thing to do (I remember seeing these sort of people at previous wargames events, so its nothing new), hopefully they were made happier by the other statement from the Warlords. I don't see the two conflicting. But of course thats just my 2p, I wasn't there and I am horrified by the reaction that has developed from the event.

On the subject of selling stuff (I repeat), they offered it for sale, people were buying. Now just why should they not offer stuff for sale that people are interested in buying? To give an example, cigarettes are bad for people, bad for those around them but the government still allows them to be sold. On the basis of the reaction to this show, I can see justification for the immediate banning of nasty videos and dangerous products like tobacco and booze. Remember its for your own good. And yes in some countries, there is a legal ban on a group such as this but not in ours.

as an afterthought, I suppose it really comes down to how much we should expect to dictate to other people how they should run their lives.

Obviously one of the first things is to ban the British National Party and similar organisations, perhaps even those too far to the Left? Anyone who has odd sexual tastes, even those who want good food in schools (junk food is popular so it must be right)?

Just so you understand, whilst I agree with banning things which are a proven danger (hell I would even agree to ban tobacco) I think too much control of what we allow and don't allow is a bad thing.

Oh and another thing, whats a resonable reaction to something like this at an event (IMHO of course):

First complain and give your reasons why you see it as a problem.

Ask for your money back and leave the show.

What (IMHO) is not right is:

Saying you will never go to that event again (things change, why should one year be such a big deal, now if they do the same thing every year…)

Boycotting every trader at the event, except for the ones you know made a complaint to the organisers (some traders have their heads down and don't notice what is happening at t ashow, esp. a big one)

Expecting every other person in the world to share your opinion (whilst it would be nice, it ain't going to happen)

No. I sit back and relax thinking that I will need not to share breathing space in my favourite show with a bunch of nostalgic ubermensch that rejoice wearing uniforms of a band of criminals that intervene in the cold blood murder of 6 million people.

Assuming that your 'favourite show' happens next year, of course. A little bit of personal vitriol and vilification is always a good way to enthuse and encourage those people who give up their own free time…

"Assuming that your 'favourite show' happens next year, of course. A little bit of personal vitriol and vilification is always a good way to enthuse and encourage those people who give up their own free time…"

I am not vilifying Salute, but the SS re-enactors. Salute has made an apology and I feel more than satisfied with it.

And yes, I felt offended. Why? Come on! They were 'only' re-enactors!

No.

We know what SS were. They were not 'just elite soldiers'. They were killers. Murderers. Partners in the killing of 6 million people.

Besides, my answer was a deliberately aggresive answer to a very unpolite accusation from Redzed. Not against Salute.

I hope you understand now what I tried to do and stop patronising me.

Regards

I aapologise that you felt patronised, that was not my intention. My intention was to make a point in a deliberately non-agressive manner.

I understand what you were doing. My reply was not directed specifically to you but also to the many posters who have been baying for blood over the past five/six days. My opinion of the SS is the same as yours. My opinion of the organisers (coloured by personal knowledge) is apparently much higher than many.

And I stand by my point – personal attacks on volunteer organisers is not conducive to producing a great show next year.

Colin

Strange – I went to London to buy some fantasy toy soldiers, and I'm being made to feel guilty by not wanting the hitler youth to share my day out.

"Ask for your money back and leave the show."

Mmmm. I can't complain without leaving? Those are my rights are they?

I think if you read Justin's message again, you will see that he suggested what he felt was reasonable, and what was not.

His suggestions for what was reasonable were that you complained and gave reasons to the organisers, or that you asked for your money back and left the show.

His suggestions for what was not reasonable reactions were saying that you would never go back (I disagree here – if you don't want to give the show a second chance, that's reasonable IMO) or saying that you would boycott every trader who was present (which is probably an over-reaction, again IMO)

Colin

Boycotting every trader at the event, except for the ones you know made a complaint to the organisers

I must admit this was the most ridiculous thing I've heard in connection with the show.

Jeremey
minigerm.com

Mmmm. I can't complain without leaving? Those are my rights are they?

Actually, complaining was item 1 on the list of things to do.

Asking for your money back and leaving was item 2. I made the assumption that people who were offended by this would want to leave and do something else. But I accept you are right, the two are not linked. One could do either or neither.

Now one could go round the show, do everything you wanted, ask for your money back and then complain bitterly about how awful the organisers of Salute are. Its an option.

I must admit this was the most ridiculous thing I've heard in connection with the show.

Well at least one person is going to do it!

My bad – saw an "and" where there was an "or".

Too much caffine too early… sorry Justin. I did #1, they apologised, I'm OK with that. I like Salute but don't make it every year anyway, so I can safely say I won't be there for 2008 – this however is a protest at my mortgage not the HJ…

Enough now I think.

-"Partners in the killing of 6 million people."-
is that an exact number? or one you just made up up?

It's a shame he's felt the need to resign. The fact that he sent a polite email as the organiser of the event to a group that he invited thanking them for their attendance is not in my opinion incompatible with the Warlords statement.

Most of will agree the inviting 2BG was an error of judgement which is extremely unlikely to be repeated. We all make mistakes and for heads to roll over was not required.

Personally I'm looking forward to a bigger and better Salute 2008 and I hope the Warlords are not disheartened by this furore.

Jesus Christ almighty! Some of you people are unbelievable.

This is like something from Witchfinder General and so out of proportion to the event as to be surreal.

As for the e-mail to the reinactors group, I believe it was good manners to send it. Lets look at it from the organisers point of view:-

They invite the group, the group attend and do their thing, people react badly and the Warlords think, "oh crap we fecked up here" and agree not to have them back again.

Next, to tidy things up from an organisational position, they e-mail/write to all exhibitors and thank them for their contribution, adding a bit of flannel about how good they were, for the sake of ending the association with them on a professional/friendly level,in the knowledge that they won't be having anything more to do with them ever again.

That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Now because one of the actors publishes the e-mail on their website and somebody obviously went there to be able to read it in the first place, the show coordinator feels under so much pressure for only being polite, that he resigns.

What a sorry state of affairs. I'm not commenting any further on this topic now, because quite frankly some of you lot give me the s!

"Personally I'm looking forward to a bigger and better Salute 2008 and I hope the Warlords are not disheartened by this furore"

To be honest Salute 2008 may not happen at all now. Organising salute takes all year and I can't see anyone wanting the to volunteer for the job. I wont be.

Lawrence

Blimey, next people will have to resign from public events if one of the attendees is sexist, racist or facist.
I was there, didn't take too much notice of the reinactors and was therefore totally un-offended by it. However you can not sweep history under the carpet. otherwise we would repeat the mistakes. i don't agree that they should be selling Nazi speaches on CD and if offered i wouldn't have bought one. i'm sure the odd history student might be interested and its thier choice. remember – supply & demand. i don't offen see the BNP types at wargaming events so i doubt many cds were bought on the day.
As ubertek says this may be an end to salute. i really hope not as i had fun.

I only remember one poster stating that they would never attend Salute again and boycott traders. That's hardly a lynch mob. No "baying for blood."

Most people said an apology was in order, which it was given. It obviously created discord among the organizers. One left, for whatever reason. Done.

"is that an exact number? or one you just made up up?"

A very approximate figure… Something between 5-7 million people (Jews, Soviet POWs, Gypsies)

Can I imagine you are for Nazi revisionism, perhaps? Or… Am I imagining too much?