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"Stone Walls Plastic Boxed Set From Warlord Games" Topic


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Rapier Miniatures21 Apr 2014 1:06 p.m. PST

How tall are the walls?

IUsedToBeSomeone21 Apr 2014 1:15 p.m. PST

On the warlord forum people are saying that these are the 1/72 set repackaged as 28mm and only 20mm high…

link

Not sure if that is true – a proper set of 28mm walls would be useful.

Mike

Prince Rupert of the Rhine21 Apr 2014 1:19 p.m. PST

They do look exactly like the 1/72 versions. Being plastic they could have been scaled up but looking at the second photo they look small for 28mm IMO. If they are the original 1/72 ones they seem to have hiked up a fair bit in price over the original Italeri set.

Heinz Good Aryan21 Apr 2014 1:33 p.m. PST

i knew a guy named jackson who had so many of these we gave him a nickname…..

legatushedlius21 Apr 2014 1:35 p.m. PST

I've got a set here. The walls are 19mm tall. My kneeling 28mm Paul Hicks WW1 figure can get his rifle over it.

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP21 Apr 2014 1:45 p.m. PST

The walls are 19mm tall.

Then they are most likely the repackaged 1:72 Italeri set. I've had one for years and used part of it with my 18th Century church. link But they are useable with 28mm especially if your bases are thin.

Jim

Steve W21 Apr 2014 1:55 p.m. PST

If they are the repackaged ones amazon.co.uk are selling the Italeri set for 5.66

James Wright21 Apr 2014 2:13 p.m. PST

They apparently are identical in size, however while pricier than the actual Italeri model, there is supposedly twice as much wall as the Italeri pack. Have not seen them personally.

Joerg Bender21 Apr 2014 2:50 p.m. PST

I think it is in fact just the repackaged 1/72 set, but sold at a higher price. This set comes with 2 identical sprues. How many are in the Warlord box? Comparing the dimension of the 1/72 box with legatushedlius measured height of 19mm it is pretty obvious. Look at the pictures of the built walls for both boxes: exactly the same contents!
Here is the link to the Italeri website for the 1/72 walls:
italeri.com/scheda.asp?idProdotto=920&idCategoria=5&idSottocategoria=29subheadingZargon

21 Apr 2014 3:33 p.m. PST

Their star shone bright, ever so bright but it lived but short.

A bad move IMO a few more 'misguided' £arketing gaffes and they can see sales losses on ideas like this.

Porkmann21 Apr 2014 3:41 p.m. PST

Well I don't think they look bad – far from it! Although I would never buy items such as these being happier to make my own.

If they are the old Italeri set then really "you pays your money"… Source the cheaper non Warlord set or go for convenience and the snazzy logo. Both have their merits.

VonTed21 Apr 2014 3:45 p.m. PST

link

??

legatushedlius21 Apr 2014 5:41 p.m. PST

Absolutely identical. Same walls on the back of the Warlord box, just a slightly different arrangement in the picture. £5.66 GBP on Amazon UK for Italeri, as Steve W says. £14.00 GBP for Warlord.

link

If Games Workshop tried to pull a stunt like this can you imagine the outcry?

Italeri are still listing the item on their website so its not even as if they are an out of production item.

Porkmann22 Apr 2014 2:21 a.m. PST

If that's the case I agree, rip off!

Paul from PMW22 Apr 2014 2:34 a.m. PST

Yes they are the same sets as the Italeri originals – which were always a little big for 1/72 IMO – however the WG boxes have 54" in linear length, which I believe is at least twice the length that you get in the Italeri boxes.

Paul – Paul's Modelling Workshop

Steve W22 Apr 2014 2:40 a.m. PST

So still cheaper to buy two boxes from Amazon than buy the Warlord ones

Tin Soldier Man22 Apr 2014 3:05 a.m. PST

Maybe this is what Rick Priestly means when he talks about "Enhancing the commercial value of the range"?

Royal Marine22 Apr 2014 3:43 a.m. PST

Don't 'diss' so easily fellas. Amazon ALWAYS undersells everything where possible, just check out the waragmes rules on offer. Warlord offer a good product – all I hear is the usual "blah blah blah we are being ripped off". They are not GW, if they were consider how much this might have retailed for.

PilGrim22 Apr 2014 4:31 a.m. PST

I have the Italeri set and its great, and although I havnt measured it recently I think it was about 4 foot of walls. Frankly Warlord are taking the Bleeped text charging twice the price.

Asking how much the product would be if it were GW misses the point, this is still a rip off.

Porkmann22 Apr 2014 4:49 a.m. PST

If GW released it there would be a profusion of silly grimacing heads impaled on spikes.

bubber22 Apr 2014 5:21 a.m. PST

My mate picked me up a couple of boxes at Salute & for me the represent great value for money. Each box comes with 2 identical sprues & the detail & way they go together is really nice IMO.

legatushedlius22 Apr 2014 5:29 a.m. PST

It is actually a nice set and just over four feet tall for walls in this scale seems about right.

Paul said "however the WG boxes have 54" in linear length, which I believe is at least twice the length that you get in the Italeri boxes."

I'm sorry but this is just not true – both sets have two identical sprues of the same identical parts:

From the Italeri site

link

Now the Warlord picture:

link

And the recommended retail price for Italeri (yes Amazon is a bit cheaper) is £7.50 GBP making the Warlord ones nearly twice the price. Nice box, though.

dBerczerk22 Apr 2014 6:01 a.m. PST

Heinz Good Aryan -- priceless!

Fergal22 Apr 2014 6:04 a.m. PST

Now, I been looking for stone walls that were affordable for a very long time, so this is a great idea to make them more widely available. It's unfortunate about the steep price hike though.

Steve W22 Apr 2014 6:10 a.m. PST
PilGrim22 Apr 2014 6:32 a.m. PST

Why \ how is this making them more widely available?

They have been available for years in local stores, ebay and on the biggest online retailer in the world if anyone had the wit to look.

I would recommend you get them, but not from Warlord

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP22 Apr 2014 7:27 a.m. PST

Sounds like a trip to the model shop is the order of the day. Good for Italeri anyway.

Fergal22 Apr 2014 8:37 a.m. PST

Sorry PilGrim, sounds like you've got an axe to grind rather than just a rational objection. I wasn't aware of these walls, I've posted a few threads asking about just this type of thing and not heard about them. I've trolled 'the google' quite a bit looking for cheap 28mm stone walls.

Now, here they are in a News source I read and I know of them. To me, that counts for something.

OldGlory Andy22 Apr 2014 8:52 a.m. PST

At 19mm they are way too low- all the local sheep would be over and away in no time ….

Jedispice22 Apr 2014 10:47 a.m. PST

I've used them for 20mm for years. I think they would look to low for 28mm. But they are nice, I would buy an upscaled version.

Littlearmies22 Apr 2014 11:27 a.m. PST

How would a 19mm tall wall be too low when matched with 28mm figures? If you assume a 28mm man is six feet tall then you get 4.66mm per foot – so 19mm would be just over 4 feet high.

Unless you are including a base for the figures and no base for the wall?

@Crossover Miniatures – perhaps because these walls were previously stated to be 1/72 / 20mm scale? Now they have been rebranded as 28mm perhaps they will be on 28mm gamers radar?

Paul at Warlord Games Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Apr 2014 12:43 p.m. PST

Gents,

Look at the images of our 28mm miniatures with the plastic walls. They look spot on heightwise to me and, as already stated above, that's without any base for the walls themselves. Yes, these are also being sold as 1/72 scale walls by our partner, Italer, but- we feel they are a tad big for 20mm games but as with all things in our great hobby it is a matter of personal taste and your freedom to choose.

As you know, stone walls don't come in just one height, but in many. Do you want your troops to be able to fire over the walls or have no line of sight at all? At a comparable height of about 4 feet for a game played with 28mm miniatures I would suggest this is very similar to any of the stone walls dotted around England and doubtless other areas of the world where such things can be found.

These are the same price as the set sold by Italeri so no price hike at all. Over 4 feet of stone walls for just £14.00 GBP? I suggest that is more than a fair price for something that won't be easily damaged, doesn't weigh much and will surely enhance your terrain collection for a wide variety of periods.

I cannot vouch for Amazon of course – they are happy with their meagre profit margins and rely on the customer to think of their own pockets rather than that of helping support the manufacturer or local gaming store. We always hear a lot about gamers showing a lot of loyalty and solidarity with their local gaming store but what about the initial link in the chain – the manufacturer? Purchasing from Amazon and other deep discounting options isn't helping the store owner or the manufacturer who is investing in producing those very same products in the first place…

Cheers,

Paul
warlordgames.com

Kravonianwarminister22 Apr 2014 1:50 p.m. PST

Paul

This is a nice set, but is the Warlord product, at £14.00 GBP, exactly the same (other than packaging) as the Italeri product, RRP £7.50 GBP (according to 'Emodels')? Or do you get more in the box, or is there some other material difference?

Regards

Tim

Cambria562222 Apr 2014 2:00 p.m. PST

Paul,

Further to what Tim says above: How is £14.00 GBP "the same price as the set sold by Italeri" when the Italeri set is listed on that manufacturer's website for €10.50 EUR? link

Steve W22 Apr 2014 2:02 p.m. PST

Hanants sell it for 7.50 as well

Jedispice22 Apr 2014 2:25 p.m. PST

Littlearmies asked:
"How would a 19mm tall wall be too low when matched with 28mm figures? If you assume a 28mm man is six feet tall then you get 4.66mm per foot – so 19mm would be just over 4 feet high.
Unless you are including a base for the figures and no base for the wall?"

As someone said, walls come in different sizes. Yet 1/72 scale figures are 23-25mm high, while 28mm figures are over 30mm tall nowadays. And yes I do use bases for my figures, don't you? Would you build a base for the wall?

While Paul think they are too large for 1/72 I think they are not. I think they are spot on, which would make them a bit small for 28mm. "Your mileage may vary."

thehawk22 Apr 2014 6:34 p.m. PST

Interesting observation, perhaps it just reflects the low volume of sales of wargames products versus modelling products.
I just saw a similar Silflor v Army Painter review for ivy on utube. YouTube link

PilGrim23 Apr 2014 4:15 a.m. PST

"Sorry PilGrim, sounds like you've got an axe to grind rather than just a rational objection. I wasn't aware of these walls, I've posted a few threads asking about just this type of thing and not heard about them. I've trolled 'the google' quite a bit looking for cheap 28mm stone walls.

Now, here they are in a News source I read and I know of them. To me, that counts for something."

I DO have an axe to grind when someone re-badges a widely available product and doubles the price. Not so much an axe, but a megaphone, because I believe this sort of behaviour should be highlighted and ridiculed or shamed. This is exactly the same trick Defiance Games tried to pull with the plastic containers and walls.

Ok, I'll accept that you have, due to your own circumstances or inadequacies, failed to see these before – sorry if that seems harsh but I can't think of another way of putting it, because these have been around for some time and even mentioned on TMP in the past. Now you have been made aware of them, are you going to buy them from Warlord at close to 100% mark up or from another seller?

I should add I would strongly recommend you do get them because they are so damned useful in any scale from 15mm to 28mm. If Warlord had released them at a comparable price I would have cheered them on too

legatushedlius23 Apr 2014 4:36 a.m. PST

As to not "seeing them before" I have some sympathy for this.

I didn't buy the Italeri ones as they were badged as 1/72 so they didn't really register. Even if I had seen them on TMP I wouldn't have looked at them because of the scale. It was the fact that they were badged as 28mm by Warlord that made me buy them.

I will buy some more as they are a good product. Just not from Warlord

PilGrim23 Apr 2014 5:56 a.m. PST

Paul said

"I cannot vouch for Amazon of course – they are happy with their meagre profit margins and rely on the customer to think of their own pockets rather than that of helping support the manufacturer or local gaming store. We always hear a lot about gamers showing a lot of loyalty and solidarity with their local gaming store but what about the initial link in the chain – the manufacturer? Purchasing from Amazon and other deep discounting options isn't helping the store owner or the manufacturer who is investing in producing those very same products in the first place…"

All very laudable except for the minor issue that you (Warlord) are NOT the manufacturer and had nothing to do with the production costs of these items, other than the reboxing. As you brought it up can you confirm what support Warlord offers the local gaming stores exactly?

Paul said
"These are the same price as the set sold by Italeri so no price hike at all. Over 4 feet of stone walls for just £14.00 GBP GBP? I suggest that is more than a fair price for something that won't be easily damaged, doesn't weigh much and will surely enhance your terrain collection for a wide variety of periods."

Au contraire these are currently on sale from direct Italeri for 10.50 Euro, which is £8.65 GBP so there is something adrift there, about a 60% additional markup by the looks of things. If you (Warlord)had simply stocked the product to allow players to "enhance their terrain collection" you would still make a profit and would not draw this sort of reaction. However you decided to rebox them and sell them as a new product at a fairly steep price hike. Please explain how that is acceptable?

PilGrim23 Apr 2014 6:51 a.m. PST

Right – now I'm off for a nice lie down in a dark room :-)

pegasusfridge23 Apr 2014 8:40 a.m. PST

Has anyone answered the basic question of how much wall you get in the italeri and warlord boxes?

Royal Marine23 Apr 2014 10:04 a.m. PST

Good to see the hobby is in such a healthy state with the discussions going on here.

legatushedlius23 Apr 2014 11:14 a.m. PST

Right, I have just stuck all the bits from one Warlord sprue together and it comes out at 68cm so with two sprues that's 136cm per box or 53.5".


These are IDENTICAL to the Italeri set (which also has two sprues) as the sprues in my Warlord box have the number 6127(the serial number of the Italeri set) embossed on them.

As I have said, its a nice set but, as others have said, what I don't like is Warlord claiming that they aren't more expensive than the Italeri set for the same product when they are. At least come up with a justification – we had to design a new box, we have to pay Italeri a licence fee, we need to subsidise our other excellent ranges with a moneymaker – anything. Perhaps there are some markets in the world where they are the same price. If so tell us. Don't just say they are the same price as Italeri when they are not. The technical term for that is a lie.

And Royal Marine, this is a healthy discussion (I assume you were being ironic – if not apologies), with wargamers trying to prevent other wargamers wasting their money unnecessarily.

Zargon23 Apr 2014 3:05 p.m. PST

Welll well well e said. I'll get them from anyone except WL as a protest on this I think hope the rest of you feel the same. ( I can make my own but have decided to look see about getting – I actually don't need but will get some now on principle) now to get on to Amazon you'll all saying? Cheers

Joerg Bender23 Apr 2014 3:17 p.m. PST

If I ever buy those walls, it will be the Italeri set. Unless Warlord Games reduces the price or comes up with a reasonable explanation. I am waiting for Paul's (WG) reaction to this discussion.

Littlearmies24 Apr 2014 5:01 a.m. PST

"I cannot vouch for Amazon of course – they are happy with their meagre profit margins and rely on the customer to think of their own pockets rather than that of helping support the manufacturer or local gaming store. We always hear a lot about gamers showing a lot of loyalty and solidarity with their local gaming store but what about the initial link in the chain – the manufacturer? Purchasing from Amazon and other deep discounting options isn't helping the store owner or the manufacturer who is investing in producing those very same products in the first place…"

I'm more than happy to support my local model store (who are more likely to stock the Italeri version) but fail to see any reason why I should pay you well over the odds for a repackaged set.

As far as I can see your only costs have been the development of the new box, and whatever it cost you to get into bed with Italeri in the first place – I'm surprised that one of the first items on the agenda when you met Italeri wasn't the pricing structure for the joint venture. Or possibly the Italians didn't foresee their new partner deciding that, as the walls would work with bigger figures, they could charge a substantially higher price…

Scrutonsmog25 Apr 2014 5:56 a.m. PST

It appears to have gone very quiet at Warlord Towers! And don't get me wrong, I've bought significant numbers of their figures and am very pleased with them but this issue about the walls is nothing short of scandalous.

PilGrim25 Apr 2014 9:12 a.m. PST

Maybe Warlord could support local gaming stores and clubs by giving them some free sets of stone walls?

Seriously, it would be nice to see some actual tangible support rather than bluster

I wonder if the walls were \ are leading to the other buildings in the Italeri range? They were pretty good, but I dont think I could afford them even before they get the "Warlord Treatment"

Rapier Miniatures27 Apr 2014 10:24 a.m. PST

Amazon and other resellers can only sell that cheaply because manufacturers sell to them at a price that allows them to do so.

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