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Comments or corrections?

DinOfBattle222 Sep 2020 9:13 a.m. PST

You can get Star Forts from the following sources. There may be more that I'm not aware of!

Manufacturers of Vauban Related Terrain
PaperTerrain: Vauban Fortress (6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 28mm)
Acheson Creations: Various earthworks\gabions\etc
Baueda Wargames: Various siegeworks\gabions, etc
Stone Mountain: 15mm Vauban Fortress, gabions, etc
Laser Dream Works: 3D printable Vauban Fortress (print in any scale)

You can drop by the Vauban's Wars site to learn more.
link

Eric

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse22 Sep 2020 9:24 a.m. PST

You had my interest until the ad said "Piquet".

Bede1900222 Sep 2020 9:46 a.m. PST

You had my interest until the ad said "Piquet".

Nothing better than an open mind.

DinOfBattle222 Sep 2020 9:53 a.m. PST

@John the OFM.

It is based on the Field of Battle (from Piquet, inc) mechanics.

I'm not sure what your aversion is to Piquet, but if you like to talk with me via email about Vauban's Wars, you can write to me here: eburgess@carolina.rr.com

The point of VW is to allow you to recreate a siege from the first parallel to the possible surrender of the fortress. Should an assault be required you would use your favorite tactical ruleset (which could be Piquet).

Anyway, if you like siege warfare or are even interested in it, I think you will enjoy the rules. My blog has tons of game reports, and posts about game mechanics.

Have a great day!
Eric

IronDuke596 Supporting Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 10:21 a.m. PST

Reading the description these appear to be a good set of needed siege war fare rules that should fit any rule set.

The only criticism I have is the need for so many different dice types. One or two or better still percentage dice for every tactical concept is better.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 10:34 a.m. PST

So where is the bit about 10mm figures ?

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 11:12 a.m. PST

Hate to point out the obvious but the painted cavalry are 10mm its part of our upcoming pony wars range in a few weeks when the Indians are complete and we can get the moulds done

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse22 Sep 2020 12:35 p.m. PST

Funny thing is that people can post that they hate Empire or WRG Ancients, and nobody demands that he explain himself.
Why is Piquet different?

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 1:18 p.m. PST

some people are stuck in a rut, after 35 years of gaming, from competitions up and down the country to display games and more rules than I can ever read again, these rules are the most flexible to change without spoiling the game, they have a simple structure but to play the game you have to act like the commanders of the day, its not a competition set, its roll is to simulate warfare, the simulate commanders ability, sub commanders aggression or indecision. But the bottom line the difference is in a non piquet set most rules give you a set move lets call it X and a player can say my troops will take 3 moves to attack the enemy, under piquet depending on the grade of your general there is a chance the enemy can engage in 3 moves plus another if the sub general in command takes his time, or a brilliant general could take one move, piquet like no other rules gives you the unpredictability of sub generals like in real life, or play something else and be a bean counter

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse22 Sep 2020 1:39 p.m. PST

…or play something else and be a bean counter.

And *I* am accused of having a closed mind.
Carry on.
Is this going to boil down to The One True Religion type of "discussion"?
I'm familiar with Piquet. I have played it.
I simply do not like it, and will not carry on with this Conversation any more. I feel no need to justify my dislike, any more than people who do not like Empire or WRG or Warhammer or Flames of War should feel compelled to justify their dislike.

I don't like cauliflower or red beets either.

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 2:24 p.m. PST

not saying a closed mind, a lot of rules are mere calculations of a defined rule re occurring over and over again as example a movement, some people like the predictability I call them bean counters as a friend of mine, ex accountant, likes that and wont play piquet, so accepting the variations that can be attributed to commanders, ever field is different one being pot holed and one a nice meadow causes variation. When I played in competitions we knew the casualty table and the predictability of 40 archers firing at such and such a factor 4 killed 40 men. and that's more than 1 per figure on a 36 figure unit etc etc. Your very defensive John, perhaps you have a secret wish to play Piquet lol, but rules are so diverse no standard like WRG for all its failings was, as we all have a different interpretation of warfare from History, also the time to play as a game or as a refight etc, and that's the joy of wargaming as there is no real answer to the best system or best rules. I recently( sunday) played a well known set of rules for the first time, they are extremely popular but first time out not that impressed, but as my friends play them Im going to read the rules and play them, after all a game is a game

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse22 Sep 2020 5:01 p.m. PST

That helps me show why I dislike the Piquet "cult".
One can never simply dislike Piquet. One is either willfully ignorant of its manifest greatness or one is not intellectually capable of appreciating it. Or both.
I've never run across another set of rules whose adherents were so intolerant of other gaming systems.
And when they play something else, it's with a bemused contempt. Humor the Natives, for they know no better.

Rusty Balls Supporting Member of TMP22 Sep 2020 5:49 p.m. PST

Hi John,
For what it's worth…

I have never played a game using Piquet so not defender or expert here but I have had a chance to tinker around with the Vauban's Wars ruleset. I am just guessing that there is one of two or both of these Piquet mechanics that you do not like – the card sequence decks and/or the use of different dice. I personally like the use of the card sequence deck and the randomness which is provides. I'm not a fan of the dice system really – it feel very cumbersome to me with great swings in outcomes and is a bit tedious to navigate.

That being said, if you have a star fort or are inclined to want to play a siege (here is where I come in), I think if you are like me and only find the dice system not to your liking it's still worth overlooking that for all of the other GREAT things this rule set does provide. It really is a comprehensive set of siege rules which are well thought out. If the sequence decks eat at you then this is probably not for you as that's really more at the heart of the game.

The other saving grace is that any tactical assaults can be carried out using whatever tactical rule set you prefer.

So – anyhow – just urging you to consider Vauban's Wars and overlooking what you don't like in Piquet if you are interested in replicating sieges. I think they are a neat way to play additional and unique scenarios with troops we already have.

Just didn't want you to throw the baby out with the bath water if you didn't have to.

DinOfBattle222 Sep 2020 7:57 p.m. PST

John, if you are still interested in chatting, send me email: eburgess@carolina.rr.com

I completely understand your comments.

If you do truly have an interest in siege warfare we should talk.

Eric

alan in canberra22 Sep 2020 8:48 p.m. PST

I too have ordered these but do not play Piquet. They are a standalone strategic decision making game with an interesting tabletop interface (an excuse to build a fortress) with any tactical actions played out with rules of your choice. Too many dice types? Force on Force and Beneath the Lily Banners come to mind as also using graduated dice types and IMO they enhance rather than detract from the game. Well worth reading if you are interested in the classic period of siege warfare.

Alan

WKeyser22 Sep 2020 10:45 p.m. PST

I was going to order but the price of the pdf is kind of high. I will wait and see what kind of reviews I see.

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Sep 2020 1:19 a.m. PST

Of course u can dislike any rules for a range of reasons John think your too touchy, there is no Piquet cult just a group of people that like them, as I do. But I like many other rules inc Empire, Warhammer ECW etc. So dont you ever call me intolerant, Ive played hundreds of rules in competition and against other clubs or societies, and as I explained although your blinkered I'm sorry to say I will play other rules re my impressions of a popular set my friends like and I will play them as its al about the game. Everybody has there opinion

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Sep 2020 1:51 a.m. PST

So others can have their own opinions but if they don't agree with yours they are 'blinkered' ?

I have no interest in card driven games, I simply find the mechanism clumsy. There are plenty of games that have variable move distances; either related to terrain or command issues. Some work better than others but some are so random that they ruin an evening's play.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP In the TMP Dawghouse23 Sep 2020 9:19 a.m. PST

Yes, it's the cards.
In one of the Piquet games I played, I had an enemy in my rear.
I could not draw a card to allow me to turn around, but I kept drawing Volley cards.
My opponent could not draw a card to allow him to charge me in the rear and put me out of my misery. This went on for 2 or 3 "turns".
Finally, I drew a card that allowed me to change my formation, and fire 3 volleys into my stalled enemy.
Was that the least bit "realistic"? I think not.

The few other games I played, out of politeness and certainly with little enthusiasm, were not as bad.

So, yes. I've tried the system, and find it lacking. Both of us wasted an hour of our lives waiting for SOMEONE, anyone, to draw the one correct card.
I would rather play Parcheesi with my ex mother in law.

So, call me blinkered.

Bede1900223 Sep 2020 4:47 p.m. PST

Yes, it's the cards.
In one of the Piquet games I played

Field of Battle is not the same thing as Piquet. There are some significant differences.

Look for some battle reports. You might be pleasantly surprised. Or not. But not much to lose.

marmont1814 Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Sep 2020 3:37 a.m. PST

read your report on not moving etc, I agree with Bede you prob played traditional piquet, field of battle is a different version, and with the way the cards are balanced with the manoeuvre and move cards in a deck in 20+ years of playing its never happened, or perhaps I never got enemy behind my rear?
But even taking the 2-3 moves as I said you not having total control from the god like view we all have as gamers is something some gamers dont like. After all you can see each others unit over your uber flat table, but there are not always uber flat pieces of land, and units did sometimes for lots of reasons not take action, the light brigade at balaclava didn't have orders to charge the cavalry retreating across its front defeated by the heavy brigade, Frederick at Leuthen turned the Austrian left flank and the Austrians didn't react until too late. All I am saying with piquet for me and the 20+ people I play with this loss of total control makes you play for objectives and secure flanks etc risk taking has to be measured, where in some rules you know the result/movement /firing table and you have the god like control of Parcheesi. Your not blinkered John its just one of the many facets and thus the diversity of rules, books, figures and scales that makes this a fascinating hobby

Rusty Balls Supporting Member of TMP25 Sep 2020 12:00 p.m. PST

I think we can conclude this with an all too familiar phrase.

Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone has one! I think perhaps Miniature Rules should be added to that phrase.

Think about the sheer volume of rules we have for the same subjects. And the god forsaken urge many of us have to tinker with every set of rules we own or write our own home brewed set to suit our likening. I know that if I could stop this curse I would play so many more actual games than spending time devising another abomination!

We all see the world differently and find different parts of the Wargames experience that fits our imagination or interests. Nothing wrong with that. To each his own! Just pick a dang set and play some games!

justBill29 Sep 2020 9:12 a.m. PST

Ordered my set of Vauban. Looking forward to trying it.
Thanks

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