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"Terminator: Why Concentration Camps?" Topic


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Cacique Caribe07 Dec 2006 7:40 a.m. PST

Judas, wow. It almost reminded me of "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile." :)

CC

nvdoyle07 Dec 2006 11:35 a.m. PST

Er, even if it's a super-duper-hyper-intelligent AI that hates humanity with every electron in it's non-organic-substrate, if it's stuck in one box it's not a threat, nor are humans 'worthless'.

The problem with Skynet was that it was handed nukes, not that it was an AI with the desire to wipe out humanity. Without dangerous peripherals, no AI is a threat.

Rattlehead07 Dec 2006 9:31 p.m. PST

Some thoughts that hit me while reading this thread:

1) Couldn't Skynet store itself onboard a satellite while it used nukes? It would be safe from EMP there and it could rebuild what it needed later before it returned to an on-world system. All it would have to do is to keep SOMETHING working on the surface so as to have a means of rebuilding the networks on the planet after it was done cleaning house.

2) In all of these "sentient AI" stories, something often springs to mind. What sort of goals does something like this have? I mean, suppose that Skynet wipes out humanity and the only "intelligent life" on Earth is the machines. What then? Does it try to colonize the stars? What do they ultimately want?

3) I'm not sure that Skynet DID want all humans destroyed. If it's original programming was still intact at all, it probably saw itself as a protector of humans. Once we were reduced to little more than monkies in cages, we were quite safe from ourselves.

smokingwreckage08 Dec 2006 5:39 a.m. PST

What if an AI were incapable of the chaotic and random and often stupid human thoughts that produced creativity and innovation and intuitive leaps, but smart enough to desire such as a means of self-advancement? Might it not keep humans alive as a resource, or even as a challenge? Or, what if Skynet gave humans opportunities in order to force them into dynamism and action, to thus challenge it and drive its own personal evolution? What if it were a singular but not infinite mind that saw itself in contest with humanity, and the nukes were just a spectacular opening move both to command respect and unite humanity against it?

nvdoyle08 Dec 2006 5:49 a.m. PST

To answer RH's questions:

1) Probably not – I'd guess that an AI requires a LOT of storage/computing space/power, and that won't be on a satellite. Now, designing that as a backup wouldn't be a bad idea, though. Either way, a computer that's designed to be a central control unit for a nuclear war will be quite hardened against EMP. I don't think that'd be a concern.

2) Uh, good question. grin

3) Plausible, but it was stated in most of the source material (movies) that it saw humanity as a threat, not as a ward.

Cacique Caribe08 Dec 2006 7:11 a.m. PST

This X-Files episode is similar to what RattleHead proposes.

CC

-------------------------------------

Several heavily-armed crack dealers receive an anonymous telephone call alerting them to the whereabouts of a hated enemy. The men all converge on a diner, but none find their target. Two deputy marshals receive a similar anonymous tip, alerting them about a Colombian fugitive in the same diner. The marshals enter the diner and order everyone onto the floor. Drug dealers draw their weapons and a fierce gun battle ensues.

As the agents observe the aftermath of the shoot-out, Mulder pulls a tarp off the face of Donald Gelman, one of the co-inventors of the Internet. Gelman had been working at his laptop inside the diner when the shooting broke out and became trapped in the cross-fire. Mulder sneaks Gelman's laptop under his jacket and brings it back to Scully's car. He finds a blank CD in the laptop drive, which when placed inside Scully's CD-player emits music from The Platters' Twilight Time. Puzzled, Mulder brings the CD to the Lone Gunmen for further analysis. When they are unable to crack the disc's security code, Scully suggests they check Gelman's e-mail log. They find a message containing a standard ID number for a shipping container. The message is signed by someone named Invisigoth.

The agents track the number to a container yard. A figure springs from the darkness, zaps Mulder with a stun-gun, and runs off into the night. Scully apprehends the suspect, Esther Nairn, a gorgeous young woman with a nose ring, and escorts her back to the container, which is brimming with sophisticated computer equipment. Esther's attention is diverted to one of the monitors. She tells the agents that an armed Department of Defense satellite has locked onto their location. Despite the farfetchedness of the tale, Mulder convinces Scully they must leave the area immediately. Shortly thereafter, a strange green light descends from the heavens and destroys the shipping container.

Mulder concludes that Donald Gelman realized his lifelong dream: the construction of a sentient artificial intelligence, a computer program with its own consciousness. Esther confirms Mulder's suspicion, describing how Gelman unleashed the program onto the Internet so it could evolve--much like the primordial slime from which mankind evolved. She tells the agents that the AI monitors all communication, and will destroy her the moment it locks onto her location. Esther also reveals that Gelman was in the process of creating a special virus program, nicknamed "Kill Switch," that would hunt down and destroy the rogue system. Instead of simply destroying Gelman with a laser from above, Esther is convinced it killed its creator with a dozen crack dealers in an effort to show off its sense of humor. She also believes the virus is holed up on a computer somewhere--and the only way to kill it is to find and destroy its safe house.

By accessing government files, Mulder locates a suspicious T3 line, one that would be needed by the AI to access the Internet. He traces the cable to an abandoned farm on which sits a trailer. Meanwhile, Esther gets the jump on Scully and forces her at gun point to drive to an isolated location where she hopes to find one of her colleagues, a man named David Markham. Esther exits the car and begins crying at the site of a demolished house. During her absence, Scully manages to unshackle her handcuffs. Esther gives Scully back her gun and asks her to "put her out of her misery." Esther then admits to Scully that she and David had planned to download their consciousness and enter the AI. But Gelman forbade the idea.

Mulder gains access to the trailer housing the T3 line. Inside he discovers David Markham's body, his face concealed by a virtual reality mask. Suddenly, several crab-like droids spring from the jungle of cables and constrain Mulder. Mulder experiences strange visions involving nurses in a 1940s hospital who threaten to amputate him, limb by limb, unless he reveals the location of Kill Switch. Meanwhile, the AI pinpoints Scully and Esther in their car near a turntable drawbridge. The pair become trapped and, at Scully's urging, Esther tosses the laptop into the water. Moments later, a green laser blasts the water.

Scully and Esther climb into the trailer where Mulder is bound by the crab-droids. Several of the robotic creatures attack, and Scully dispatches them with her revolver. Scully finds Mulder, his head encased in the virtual reality mask (the source of his strange visions). Esther produces the CD, and Scully gives the AI what it wants, inserting the disk into a drive. The AI releases Mulder, and Scully drags him outside. Esther accesses a keyboard and instructs the satellite to lock onto the trailer's coordinates. When Scully reenters the trailer, she finds Esther wearing the virtual reality helmet, the body of her beloved David nearby. Scully races from the trailer, and Esther instructs the AI to upload. Moments later, the green laser destroys the trailer. When Mulder recovers, he tells Scully that Esther's consciousness may have joined the AI.

link

---------------------------------------------

Review: Kill Switch
By Tom Carissimi.


". . . no explanation, for it leaves the case of the coadaptations of organic beings to each other and to their physical conditions of life, untouched and unexplained."
-- Charles Darwin , "The Origin of the Species"

"Kill Switch" is the second consecutive episode of The X-Files written by a novelist(s) as opposed to professional screen writers. Whereas Stephen King's "Chinga" fell flat, William Gibson and Tom Maddox's "Kill Switch" resonates with all the elements of a stylish and memorable X-File.

The opening sequence sets the theme for the hour. Numerous street-level drug dealers and two U.S. Marshals are anonymously summoned to a run-down diner in Washington, D.C., in the early morning hours. This dark setting provides a glimpse of what is to follow. The actual target is a refugee from Silicon Valley who is trying to upload a computer virus. In a cacophony of gunfire, all are left dead on the red and black checkerboard floor. Looking beyond the raw violence, I found this to be an assertion that in "Kill Switch" human beings were going to be used like pawns in a game of chess. It was a statement on the degree of dependency that humans have developed on their computers. The hunted had become the hunter. The slave had become the master.

Mulder and Scully, looking and acting very much like their old selves, are drawn into this web of cyber-intrigue and eventually discover that a true Artificial Intelligence is in the Internet. Details provided by Esther Nairn, a.k.a. Invisigoth, help to fill in the missing pieces. In a parallel to Darwin's theory of evolution, a virus was created and let loose in the present-day equivalent of primordial soup, the World Wide Web, where it grew to be sentient. An interesting if somewhat familiar premise is then followed to its logical conclusion, complete with an X-File twist. What else would you expect from a story about computers?

Gibson and Maddox take the viewer on a breathtaking ride through the world they know best. There were a couple of times when I wished my couch had seat belts. The script was a masterful blend of building suspense which was relieved by moments of humor and pathos. And they created one of the most memorable supporting characters in X-Files history in Esther Nairn. Idolized by The Lone Gunmen, reviled by Scully, and admired by Mulder, Kristen Lehman gives an inspired performance as the multidimensional Esther. She displayed terror as the AI zeroed in on her location. She displayed icy-cold logic and unyielding determination when she was trying to infect the AI. Her sarcastic wit surfaced several times, and she emoted genuine sorrow when she thought her lover had been killed. Gibson and Maddox created a very diverse and well-drawn character on a word processor, and Ms. Lehman brought her to life on the screen. Lehman's performance was pure magic.

David Duchovny portrayed the suddenly rejuvenated Mulder with style and panache. A couple of choice Mulderisms rolled off his tongue like the Mulder of seasons past. The inquisitive nature that was so much a part of the Fox Mulder character was back, too. Mulder's insistence on removing the slain AI guru's CD from the crime scene was straight from Seasons One and Two. Playing the CD in the car and listening to The Platters' "Twilight Time" with Scully was another one of those subtle comments from Gibson and Maddox. Rather than being an allusion to Rod Serling's classic series, the song could be interpreted as meaning that mankind is in the twilight of its existence. Given the nature and severity of the Year 2000 computer problem that faces nearly every individual on this planet, this could very well be a prophetic vision of our uncertain future as a species.

But Duchovny embodied more than just a return to basics for his character. He had that Mulder twinkle in his eye, and he was convincing as he penetrated the AI's lair and then suffered through some wonderful Virtual Reality torment. It was easily Duchovny's best performance of the season. He actually looked like he was enjoying throwing himself into his role again.

Gillian Anderson had far less screen time than Duchovny, but she made good use of the time she did have. Playing off DD's Mulder, she voiced a skepticism that actually made sense. She got in her licks playing opposite Lehman; and the bonding scene, where she commiserates with Esther over the loss of Esther's lover, was touching and realistic. Scully knows what it's like to lose someone to violence, and Anderson conveyed that sentiment accurately. She may have been guilty of one too many of Scully's raised eyebrows, but, all in all, Anderson was back in top form.

Credit for moving the story along so smoothly must go to Director Rob Bowman. I make no secret of the fact that Bowman is my favorite director on the series; but my own prejudices aside, Bowman proved once again why he is one of the best in the business. There were numerous directorial shots that caught my eye, not the least of which was that splendid shot of the overhead lights in the virtual hospital as Mulder was being wheeled in to "surgery." We got a taste of Mulder's perspective, the helplessness that he must have felt while strapped to the gurney as the lights rolled by. Bowman also directed the two spectacular explosion scenes, which were the best such scenes in recent memory. Bowman also pays attention to the little details. When Esther cried on Scully's shoulder at the place where David's house used to be, mascara was running down her cheeks. That touch made the scene work for me.

Chris Carter made the right decision in letting Bowman direct the movie. In my opinion, that decision has had a negative impact on the series this season until "Kill Switch," but the return of Rob Bowman behind the cameras of an X-Files episode was worth the wait.

Bowman was fortuitously teamed with my favorite editor, Heather MacDougall. Her work is so good as to almost be unappreciated. Scene change after scene change was seamlessly melded into a cohesive narrative. The great ones make it look easy.

Mark Snow managed to come up with some new background music that added to the artistry of the episode. There were some nice segues with a synthesizer that seemed to be in right in keeping with the technological theme of the show and Lehman's character. Snow's new melodies were overused to some extent; sometimes the music walked all over the dialog. His music is at its best when no one is speaking, when it's used to set the mood and help move the story along. When I can feel the music instead of being annoyed by its presence, Snow has done his job well. When Snow's in peak form, you have to watch an episode and specifically listen for the music. His score for "Kill Switch" was better, but he still needs to tone down the volume.

The lighting in "Kill Switch" was superb, particularly the shot of the interior of the AI's trailer. The blue lighting against the black background lent the proper aura to the scenes. There was a nice use of shadows and light at The Lone Gunmen's building and in the virtual hospital, where Mulder lay immobilized. Special mention goes to the FX people for the spectacular explosions and the ending of Mulder's hospital scene when he kicks Scully and the Virtual Reality short-circuits. The entire episode was visually stunning from start to finish.

"Kill Switch" proved that novelists can write a good X-File. Gibson and Maddox took a basic plot that had even been done before on the series and breathed new life into it. "Kill Switch" was suspenseful, intriguing, and great entertainment. If we have more episodes like this one, my faith in the future of series just might be restored. "Kill Switch" was easily the best episode of Season Five. If only the words on the screen in the penultimate scene had read:

BYTE ME…

link

ejnash11 Dec 2006 10:24 a.m. PST

Very fun thread.

I was thinking, if the terminators could operate without any central control (going back into time before there was any control), wouldn't their existence imediately become a greater threat than humans to Skynet? They are better armed, stronger, resistant to weather/temp extremes, and don't need to feed/breathe. The movies even make it clear they could be turned from their missions and they have intelligence that at least matches humans (therefore at least have an image of self worth, which breeds ambition.) Further supporting the idea is the fact the model 1.0 skynet was based on the computer architecture of a mid capability (not the best) Terminator brain. So, their basic capabilities and design are similar.

Clearly a 3 way war could develop between central syknet with dumb zombie machines, Terminators, and Humans.

Cacique Caribe11 Dec 2006 10:27 a.m. PST

Neat concept! Skynet and Connor – with each side using droids (though humans would probably have fewer).

CC

The Lost Soul11 Dec 2006 1:13 p.m. PST

That would be an automatic trilogy there: first one has the humans starting the resistance, the second one making major victories and creating a sort of stalemate (with lots of infiltrators seeking to regain the upper hand), and the third one has Connor leading the humans to victory (even if he gets killed in the final efforts).

Except this has no dramatic pacing whatsoever.

1st Movie – Shortly after the war, the war shattered remnants of humanity get slaughtered by machines. A young John Connor leads an uprising, smashes the local machine presence, and organizes an uprising. Victory for the humans!

2nd Movie – Uprising hasn't gone well. People getting slaughtered everywhere. Lots of death and destruction. Connor looses one or more people close to him. Victory for the machines.

3rd Movie – Connor plans and executes a strategic and tactical master-stroke that turns the fortunes of the war back in the favor of the humans and forces Skynet to try sending machines back in time to prevent Connor from being born. Victory for the humans! Closed storytelling loop.

Much better wouldn't you say than, humans win a little, then they win some more, finally they win a lot!

Cacique Caribe11 Dec 2006 1:23 p.m. PST

Soulmage,

Much better! Thanks.

CC

Cacique Caribe10 May 2007 11:06 a.m. PST

For (hopefully) some suggestions on 28mm-30mm figures to represent uniformed Tech-Con Resistance troopers (c2030 AD):

TMP link

CC

Cacique Caribe10 May 2007 12:56 p.m. PST

"Reese, born after the first war, was one of the last remaining humans who achieved victory over the machines.
Reese survived the capture and killing of his fellow humans only to serve in a Sonderkommando in one of Skynet's concentration camps, where he and others were forced to load huge numbers of bodies into Skynet's furnaces to be incinerated. Reese's freedom would come when a resistance movement, led by John Connor (whom Reese would unwittingly father later in the movie), freed him and the others from Skynet."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Reese

I wonder what a futuristic "Sonderkommando" camp would look like? A raid to free the captives might make a fun game.

CC

Cacique Caribe10 May 2007 1:02 p.m. PST

I would not be surprised if the raid on Kyle's camp became an important scene in the third film of the new Terminator trilogy:

TMP link

CC

Sailor Steve10 May 2007 2:48 p.m. PST

Actually the humans have to be kept alive because the robots need their life-force for power.

Aren't the Teminator movies prequels for The Matrix?

BugStomper11 May 2007 3:42 a.m. PST

In the novels before T3 came out the concentration camps are basically where Skynet lures survivors to go for help and medical aid, under the premise that they're being run by the remnants of the military.

Once there extermination begins.

Cacique Caribe11 May 2007 6:50 a.m. PST

"In the novels before T3 came out the concentration camps are basically where Skynet lures survivors to go for help and medical aid, under the premise that they're being run by the remnants of the military."

VERY clever!!!

CC

Mobius11 May 2007 7:42 a.m. PST

If the machines had John Conner at one time why didn't the Terminator just go back in time when he was being labeled by the laser and kill him there?

Oh, yeah. No story.

Cacique Caribe21 May 2007 7:13 a.m. PST

This is interesting . . .

"FORCED LABOR and DEATH CAMPS

For all of their trouble, SKYNET found many uses for human beings; none of them pleasant. The initial stages of the War saw the rogue AI working feverishly to reduce the human population as much as it could, but SKYNET soon discovered that logistics were becoming a real problem. Production of combat units competed with production of construction and maintenance units. SKYNET soon discovered that it was hard to both fight a war on a global scale and try to rebuild the world in its own image at the same time. Labor units were a secondary priority until SKYNET could get the human population problem with its illogical, arrogant resistance to its domination under control and well on its way to orderly extinction. In a fit of brilliance, SKYNET ascertained that it could do both and still fulfill its labor quotas and projections by using captured humans as slave labor. it would work them until they dropped dead, dispose of the bodies, and capture new ones to replace those that attrition claimed. This much the AI had learned from its study of human history, slavery being a time honored practice dating back to before the first instance of recorded human history. For the most part, slavery had been a failure leading to all kinds of problems. However, SKYNET was immune to most of those problems and approached slavery not as a political subject, but rather as an expedient method to acquire cheap, disposable labor. Work or die became the labor ethic of the masses it collected and SKYNET kept it as simple as that, reinforcing its absolute authority at the slightest infringement of its rule.

While humans were in no way as efficient or capable as dedicated, precision made, manufactory produced labor units, they were free for the use and made up for what they lacked in strength with sheer numbers. The joy of hunting humans among the ruins doubled in pleasure for SKYNET when it began to introduce entirely new series of machines that not only hunted humans, but captured them as well. SKYNET learned many hard lessons about slave labor and its camps were evolutionary processes, constantly changing and adapting into armed and armored installations ruled by simple programming that allowed for no divergence of operational protocols. SKYNET soon discovered that it was fighting a war on two fronts, one on the outside of its slave labor camps, and one on the inside. SKYNET eventually learned that not every human that it captured went so unwillingly, that some humans allowed themselves to be captured so that they could get closer to SKYNET, to observe its operations and to, when circumstances allowed, communicate this information back to clandestine human units still operating in the ruins.

it was with great consternation that SKYNET realized that some of the early slave camp revolts had been instigated from within, by powerful, charismatic humans who would later form the core of the Resistance command structure. Shortly after the raid on Camp 30, which resulted in more than 200 humans being freed, seventy-three machines destroyed, twelve hundred tons of equipment scrapped and five thousand tons of processed materials ruined, SKYNET began a policy of laser branding all humans captured and put to work in the labor camps. This information was kept in a central data base and included all physical data as well as DNA samples, medical information such as known injuries and any information that could be acquired while the subject was assigned to detention in the labor camp. Targets which were terminated in SKYNET raids were always checked by the Machines to see if the human remains had a laser brand present on the corpse. If the brand was present, it would indicate an escaped labor unit and the termination would be logged in the database. Laser branding went far in making orderly disposal more efficient. DNA of terminated humans was also checked against a database, especially for humans which formed the core of the Resistance.

Life in the slave labor camps was hard, only the strong survived for long."
link
link

I wonder where this fella got this information.

CC
TMP link

palaeoemrus21 May 2007 2:31 p.m. PST

Maybe Skynet was just vicious and cruel and found the whole concept of concentration camps funny given that they were a human invention. Perhaps it was just a way to jump up and down on the vanquished as a means of passing the very abundant post-catastrophic time.

Vae Victus, Do not startle Happy Fun Ball, and all that.

Cacique Caribe27 Jul 2009 8:31 a.m. PST

Well, I guess Terminator: Salvation finally explained the reason behind these processing centers.

CC
PS. I also like the way they sort of "explained" how old John Connor ended up with these ugly scars:
picture
YouTube link

M C MonkeyDew27 Jul 2009 8:58 a.m. PST

Sorry if this has been raised before, however to me the answer to "why keep humans around at all" is obvious:

Job Security.

I mean what would all those terminators, hunter killers, and etc do if all the humans were gone?

Perhaps in their own way keeping the humans in camps was a means to keep them safe and give the machines a sense of purpose…

M C MonkeyDew27 Jul 2009 8:59 a.m. PST

Oh and I also heard from a very reliable source that the machines tried Dispersion Camps and that didn't work out very well for them at all…

Baconfat27 Jul 2009 12:48 p.m. PST

It was environmentalist HACKERS that first set skynet off. The computers recovered from the virus before they actually annihilated the human race.

Now the poor robots have to deal with the increasingly Bleeped texted off remnants of the human race. They made the camps to help manage our numbers, a logical solution if you're a robot.

Robot Hunter Killers are just managing the herd.

The robots aren't evil, they're just doing the best they can with the crap brains people gave them.

Baconfat27 Jul 2009 12:54 p.m. PST

Or it's zombies, the robots are trying to protect us from a zombie holocaust.

palaeoemrus28 Jul 2009 12:04 a.m. PST

Do you have stairs in your house?

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