"True or False?" Topic

Fantasy gamers tend to be Democrats and Historical gamers tend to be Republicans.

For the world audience:
Fantasy gamers lean towards the left politically while Historical gamers lean to the right.

Actually - comparing the US to the world is a bit of apples to oranges but I was trying to see it it was worth codifying my observations . . .

Or are gamers in general apolitical?

Someone will undoubtedly ask: "Who cares?" In advance I reply, "I do; just outta curiosity, what do you think?"

Well I disagree. I play both but predominantly Fantasy/Sci-Fi and I would consider myself a conservative or at very least not a liberal.

I am a historical gamer. Republican. The problem with the recent polls is that the dvision you suggest *might* be accurate. And then again, it might not. I suggest two more polls! One for only fantasy gamers, one for only historical. There is absolutely no way to police it, except the honor system.

It's a good a way to waste Bill's time, money and bandwidth as any.

(And before anyone jumps all over the Grammer Fascist, I wrote "a historical" rather than "an historical" deliberately. My reasoning is that Americans pronounce the "h" in "historical", so "an" is both inappropriate and silly sounding. Nyaaaaaah.)

Actually, my observations on the subject are somewhat different. I've noted that the players that are in the hobby for fun, social action, and a reasonable amount of competition tend to be the liberals/progressives, whilst the win-at-all-cost, rules lawyers (the bad kind), "baby-killers", very competitive types ten to be on the radical right. Conservatives tend to the middle of the extremes.

The fantasy players in my circle (70-80) tend to be young/unformed or liberal. The historical players are all over the political map.

Never thought about it before... it's true I dig historic warfare and am a political conservative - but then again, I also enjoy fantasy and sci-fi related books and movies.

In our little D&D group (players in mid-20s to mid-40s), my wife and I are liberal on most issues, but everyone else is fairly conservative.

HoomanBean,

That's funny, because I am about to make the same observation in reverse. I belong to a club whose members, based on casual conversations about events of the day I've heard over the years, are by far in the majority conservative types. The club plays more historical than fantasy games as a group, so fit that theory. But it is definitely made up of gamers looking for fun, social interaction and friendly competition. I've noticed that the win-at-all costs types in the stores I frequent tend to be the ones playing CCGs, CMGs and GW mini games, and doesn't seem dependent on age. And the conversations I've overheard around these folks would generally put them in the politically left category.

So, it would seem that the original contention doesn't hold and people's political views don't affect what they play or how they play it.

Maybe it's just our perceptions. I come from Scotland and amongst the people I know there I'm considered centre-right(ish) but now I live in SE England whenever I voice an opinion people look at me like I'm a Trotskyist.

John, from a pronunciation point of view being a Brit I usually say '...an historical...' because it avoids any possible confusion between 'a historical' and 'ahistorical' ;o)

I'd have to agree with William on this one. And at least in my Area - the liberals/regressives tend to play RPGS more than miniatures anyway. (The miniatures left seem to like the prepainted stuff though.)

I play historical games and lean to the left, as do most of my gaming buddies. Of course, living in New York City may skew this a bit. My observation over the years is that gamers tend to be either right or left leaning and not middle of the road. Only dead critters and a yellow stripe there, anyway.

No observations about fantasy, since I don't play much.

As far as I am concerned, Flashman14's statement is false. Count me among the following two camps: Historical gamers & liberal/leftists. --Cheers!

//Paul in Seattle (aka "latteland")

You will find a good mix in the politically informed but the politically uninformed tend to lean left as this is what mainstream media feeds them. No insult intended only an observation.

I did more gaming before 9/11 and politics seldom came up but since 9/11 everyone is politically aware to some degree and have chosen sides as the media wishes us to do.

I play historical and fantasy. Some of my views are quite liberal and others very traditional. I try to judge everything on its merits regardless of where it comes from.

People play games for many reasons and different kinds of games are more likely to be played by those seeking one kind of enjoyment or another. Some people like to be part of a co-operating group, others like direct competition, some want to show they are an enjoyable companion or identify with a pleasant fantasy, other want to show their capability or even dominate others. In short, games are just like real life.

I suspect the type of game you play, the reason you play it and your general outlook on life are all connected but I don’t think it’s as simple as historical/fantasy. Both can be played cut throat or just for laughs and history, when it comes down to it, is just fantasy stretched over a framework of facts.

Our club is historicals only and tends to be generally left of centre (that may be due to being Canadian). This actually surprised the hell out of the war museum staff to find a wargames club full of pacifists (many of us beleive in the old civil war chant "Rich Mans War - Poor Mans Fight").

For the record I am the secretary of the club and considered left leaning even in Canada. However I avoid the term "Liberal" when talking to Americans as it implies a lack of common sense in beliefs to a lot of you.

What about two polls for tomorrow?

One is "what do liberals play?" with choices of sci-fi, fantasy, historical, and "not a liberal."

One is "what do conservatives play?" with similar choices.

Would that work? Any reason to break historical down into sub-genres? Should other options be added (i.e., RPGs, card games, etc.)?

Sounds good, Bill. Just put us on the honor system. Not like in "open" primaries, :^)

And Frontovik. Here in NE Pennsylvania, the word "a" is pronounced like a grunt: "uh", not as in "pail". "Ahistorical" is pronounced "ai-historical", not "uh-historical". Therefore, not a problem.

Different strokes for different throats!

I play fantasy, sci-fi, straight historical, and "fantasy" historical. Big liberal. The guys in my group that would *never* play a historical game are all conservatives. We get along just fine though.

Our group is all lefties, some FAR left, and we play BOTH historicals and fantasy. But primarily historicals. Those that WERE in the group and conservative are long gone, as they were constantly trying to pick fights about their so-called "president". As to the rest of us, we try to leave politics well and truly OUT of our game nights. No place for it there!

Hmm, I seem to have found that among the Fantasy Players, the left leaning individuals tend to play "good" forces (i.e. high elves, knights, etc.), while the right leaning individuals play either dwarves or the "evil" or "chaotic" force. Generalization, I know, but it has been my observation.

Andy Welkley
"Your Phriendlee Hevy Phyzx T-chrr"

On vacation and Painting Like Crazy!

"You will find a good mix in the politically informed but the politically uninformed tend to lean left as this is what mainstream media feeds them. No insult intended only an observation."

Rogcollectibles, surely you don't live in the US? American media has been trending farther and farther to the right in the past several years.

I play Warhammer Dwarfs and WWII germans. I am politically off the scale (i.e. neither the left nor the right are suited to my opinions - which tend toward equality and freedom both, not one over the other). What do I vote? :)

-A.

I play historical and fantasy.

I am using wargaming to prepare for my world coup d'etat.

When I'm not out fighting oppressive oligarchies and poking the pomposities of neo-con wankers, I like nothing better than to spend time with my Republican Romans and take over the world for fun and profit.

There are two kinds of people in this world, those who think the world can be divided into as few as two categories and those who know better.

I play mostly Sci-Fi with a little WWII. I would have to say I am extremely conservitive in my political views. I'll stop now or you'll have to take my soapbox away by force of arms.

Wargamers, as a generalisation with many exceptions, tend to be white men of middle-ish class (and the historical players middle-ish age). Usually this is a relatively conservative group (we are just a little too weird to play golf and talk about the stock market and lower back pain like our dull contemporaries) but since the middle of the road varies according to where you live, it means that in my experience Southern US gamers are much more conservative than Canadian or British wargamers. Since I am(according to the test) somwhere in the left lower quadrant with Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama, it means I don't talk about politics at all in Nashville - because I am not here for an argument- and mostly don't talk about politics in more liberal places, because I came here to game, dammit!

Interesting , in my group in Britain there are a mixture of Tories, Reds, Libertarians, Anarchists, Socialists etc etc so any political discussion which arises is usually quite 'interesting'. Your comparison of Democrat against Republican wouldn't work over here because they are both far more Right wing it seems than our Tories!!!

Sorry, I'm Pure 100% Republican and I am a Warhammer Fantasy player (since late 80's).
BUT I have to agree more and more gmaers are getting "liberal" which I have sen as a trend.. all my old cronies are fairly right wing BUT younger players eeem to be going the other way.. not sure why.

damn forgive my typing errors !

Bill, there should be more options. If you just put Liberals and Conservatives, then you completely ignore the New Democrats, the Canadian Alliance people, and the, shudder, Bloquists...

Not to mention those guys booted out of the Liberals and being "not bitter" about it...

Firebranch, IMO America media is a mixed bag with most of the mainstream including the big three(NBC, CBS, ABC) leaning to the left with Fox on the right, CNN also on the left and MSNBC doing god knows what. Of course they all claim to be straight down the middle and none of them are.

Thats okay though, as you eventually learn to read between the lines and spit out the company politics.

As far as leaning further and further to the right, it's just a reaction to a nation at war. The underlying liberal messages are still there.

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who know binary and those who don't.

My interests cross the spectrum of historical, fantasy, and science fiction, though I lean the most towards fantasy and medieval or ancient historical gaming. I started as a fantasy/sf RPG'er, and have played CCGs (but didn't like the collectible "I bought more so I win" aspect). My favorite armies tend to be "good" (dwarf) or "Western Civ" oriented (Crusader, Arthurian, high-medieval, Roman). I own an orc army (to have opponents for the dwarfs) but otherwise I don't care for chaos/evil/demonic armies.

I play for fun and gentle competition. I despise "rules lawyering" in all forms, try to respect anyone's painting skills or preferences, and don't care what game system others do or don't prefer. As long as you don't hammer me with minutiae and disgusting fluff (see "Chronopia"), I'll play your game.

Politically I am a conservative, meaning that I believe in low taxes and a simple tax structure, less government intrusion/power, personal responsibility, freedom, respect for private property rights, reasonably-regulated capitalism, free trade, and a strong national defense.
I am opposed to socialism, collectivism, judicial activism and intellectual elitism.

The generalizations many have made here regarding political types and their playing preferences/habits strike me as close-minded and presumptuous, if not down-right bigotted-- and that statement applies regardless of the poster's political/gaming leanings!

Political viewpoints are rarely evil, except at truly extreme extremes (Nazis, Baathists, Wahabists, Skinheads, Totalitarian Communists, etc.)-- and I doubt those chaps would be interested in a friendly game of DBA. So don't categorize gamers negatively according to their political or game preferences-- just play!

I would have to say my group of 15+ members and I are all on the right of the political scale?

We do play with the other types from time to time though. :)

Rabbit!

Ooops!

I guess I should mention that our main attraction is Fantasy, Warmaster to be exact.

Rabbit

Hmmmm.

Conservatives playing Evil and Chaos fantasy armies...very interesting.

'And now, Bob Dole will read from The Necromonicon'

Your definition of who you are is also dependent on where you live. When I lived in Austin, I was usually the most conservative person in the room. Now that I reside in San Diego, I'm one of the liberals. (The test puts me at center-left.)

As for gaming, we get all types. About the only thing I can say for certain is that if you're a redneck of the worst kind, you're playing Confederates. The opposite is not necessarily true -- just because you're playing Confederates doesn't mean that you're a cracker.

There are also certain personality types that gravitate toward Chaos and Undead -- but I'm not sure you can attach political labels to those guys.

Republicans right-wing and Democrats left-wing?

Surely you jest?

From over here it sure looks like two pretty similiar parties, both right-wing and both completely beholden to big business.

As far as I can tell the only difference seems to be that Republicans send the troops in whilst Democrats are content to sit on the side launching missiles.

Long live Plutocrac..erm, Democracy! I see shares in Lockheed are up...

Rog, no insult intended, eh? Well one's certainly taken anyway. All those 'Sun' readers certainly are rabid Stalinists aren't they? Either we see things very differently or we live in different countries. Both, I suspect.

The double poll needs to be a triple one. I'm neither conservative nor liberal, I'm left-wing.

Also, I'm a Skinhead, and I own a copy of DBA. But I don't like it much, so perhaps you can judge people by their gaming choices, after all.

I like this debate. I hope it doesn't turn into a big row, like all the others.

Polynikes are you British by any chance?

Aye, Anglo-Danish crossed with a bit of Romano-British (i.e. Welsh).

And I'm Red-hot Labour, as my late Welsh Tory grandfather would have said.

Polynikes, be careful calling yourself a "Skinhead" on an international forum. It's not a reference to a fashion statement. Here in the States it refers to an extreme neo-Nazi white supremacist movement, largely made up of young males, with a propensity for horrific violence against Jews and non-white ethnic groups in general. I seriously doubt that's what you meant with your self-appelation.

not to mention a terrifically strong affiliation with the far right . . .

Me thinks Mexican Jack Squint has his hand on the pulse of the matter, says the childish old guy who marches to his own kazoo.

Thurlac took my answer.

Yeah.. I never asked the politics of the other players on my softball team... are catcher's conservative whilst pitchers are liberals?

Well i'm a leftist who can't abide the lefts habitual sympathy to terrorists, religous maniacs and stalinist regimes. So, umm, i'm not quite sure what that makes me. I dislike the term liberal as that implies peace luvvin, tree hugging animal rights types, but the term 'libertarian' sounds a bit too,well, dodgy. OK, i'll just go for Secular Humanist. Does'nt exactly roll off the tongue though.

Oh, and I play historicals mainly. As regards laying an army that fits your own politics, well, I'm just finishing a republican Mexican army, before I begin a new ACW confederate one...

That would be 'playing' an Army. Although it opens up an interesting new debate. Do your armies reflect your political beliefs?

MartyD, I hope not otherwise I'll have to sell all those 15mm French 7 Years War troops because I'm not a French Monarchist!

Well, yeah. But i've been thinking about this because a few of our club are going to try the new Peter Pig Spanish Civil war rules, and instinctually I went for the International Brigade.

Of course all politics is a complte waste of time rations and air. Its only away to keep otherwise dangerous idiots relativly quiet. Letsface it anyone who WANTS to run for office should by NO means be allowed to do so.