"15MM BASE SIZES PLEASE" Topic

Hi would like to know what size bases to use for my 15mm army, I am thinking of using warhammer anicent rules, anyone know the base sizes please, thanks terry

I base all my 15mm Ancients WAB stuff on 1/2" x 1/2" metal bases. Then I get some magnetic sheeting from Wal-Mart or Michael's craft store and glue it to a plasticard base. The unit stays put and can even be held upside down without any figures dropping off.

Most WAB gamers I know use 28mm and the WFB bases; 20x20 for HI, 25x25 for LI and I don't know the cavalry base size off the top of my head.

You could probably use the 15mm DBM basing conventions and casualty caps. It would give your army dual usage.

FFor virtually every other rule set it's WRG baseing. ie 40mm frontage for everything and 15mm deep (4 figs) for HI/Knights, 20mm deep (3 figs for MI and 2 for skirmish) for MI and 30mm deep for Cav (2 for LC and 3 for MC and HC or Knights). This is not optimal for Warhammer.

Warhammer is a SKIRMISH set of rules – dispite the howls of indignation of the Warhammer fans. Normally, Warhammer figures are mounted individually (PROOF that it is a skirmish set of rules). Most folks use 25's for Warhammer, but if you use 15's, I recommend using small steel washers for individual bases and sheets of magnetic sheeting to form unit stants for movement. Since Warhammer – being a SKIRMISH set of rules – uses individual figure casualties as do all other SKIRMISH rules, this will get you what you need.

You will have fun with these rules. Also you will pick up a willing following with the young folks that are coming from the 40K world. This is a good thing. Also all of the materials they publish are genuine eye candy.

When you get tired of Warhammer and want to try an Army level set of rules, post here and I'll make a recommedation.

My 15mm ancients are based on 60mm x 30mm bases.
For Vis Bellica, that is.

I do not play WAB in either 15 or 28mm but it would seem to me that your first task would be to find out how other people in your area that you would be playing base them. Those are the people whose opinions matter.

If you are going to be getting the game started in your area or will be painting up different armies for you yourself to use, I would suggest going with 20x20mm bases for individual infantry and 20x40 for cavalry.

Individual figure casualties is not PROOF that it is a set of skirmish rules. Johnny Reb uses single figure casualties for instance. Many sets of rules use multi figure basing and single figure casualties by utilizing casualty caps or rings.

Since the figures are required to stay in UNITS and are not allowed to move individually I would say that WAB is NOT a skirmish ruleset.

It would be difficult to run a full sized Roman army of 4+ legions however using WAB. But a Dark Ages army of 2-5000 men is within the rules abilities.

P.S.
there is no requirement in the WAB rule book that figures must be individually based. I've seen several nice WAB armies on the net which utilitze very attractive multiple figure bases. Often in 2 ranks for HI which I think is far more attractive than those icky single rank DBM bases.

so it ain't a set of SKIRMISH rules either!

(I'm not a WAB fan either btw, I'm just jealous of their graphics and marketing dept)

JRIII is a low level game using the smallest individually deployable size of unit, which in the ACW was the Regiment. But, JRIII doesn't use individually mounted figures. It is definately the most tactical game that could in any sense be called "historical". BAB – a fun little skirmish game – is more warhamerish in scale and temperment (and in rolling buckets of dice – another indication of a SKIRMISH set of rules). BAB is not a simulation in any sense, but is fun and is applicable to just about every period with very minor modifications.

But the question is Warhammer. If you decide not to do it individually on washers, or according to the 25/28 "heroic" scale Warhammer uses, than the DBX/WRG standard should work the best. This will at least leave you in a position to use the figures for most other games.

Vis Bellica in my opinion screwed themselves over by doing "their own thing" with baseing. The one true standard in all of Wargaming is and will remain the DBX/WRG baseing system for ancients. And no, I don't play WRG or DBM/A. Adopt compatible baseing systems to multiply the usefulness of the figures that you will spent months painting.

Regardless of whether WAB is a skirmish game or not (it's not), the DBx basing system works just fine. The ratio of frontage is not quite the same as the standard WFB basing (4 HI:3 Cav vs 5 HI:4 Cav) but if that's the sort of thing that makes you break out in a rash you should probably be playing DBM anyway 8>)

WAB is fun. Play it for fun and you'll enjoy yourself. Get lost in the mechanical minutiae and you'll drive yourself crazy. But that's true of just about any game.

LT

My goodness you have very specific parameters of what are 'army' level and what are 'skirmish' level games.

Warfare in the Age of Reason also uses buckets of dice for it's mechanics. But it is Army level. Or by maneuvering individual battalions is one no longer at Army level?

I always figure if I can put the entire army on the table (which you can do with Warfare in the Age of Reason for the smaller battles), or at least a good chunk of it like in JR it's an 'Army' level game.

Actually the DBM/WRG basing is loosing out with the 25mm players because the larger figures don't fit on the WRG base sizes. The Warhammer bases are winning out.

So it's no longer the "One true scale".

There are different basing schemes for ACW, Napoleonics and WW2, why must ancient and medieval gamers be slaves to a rule set they don't play? I applaud Vis Bellicas audicaty and daring in going to a basing system that fits their rules rather than making the rules fit the basing.

Besides, in my experience DBM is the only game in which the basing is really critical. Every other rules I've played one can fudge through discrepencies with some good sportsmanship.

PBI II is a WW II company level game with bases of two or three figures and you roll buckets of dice bsides. It is in no way a skirmish game. Neither is Warhammer or any of it's offshoots. No amount of arguing or specious reasoning, or CAPITAL letters will make it true.

Whole threads have been taken up here on TMP to discuss what IS and what ISN'T a skirmish level game. No consensus was ever reached…

"Whole threads have been taken up here on TMP to discuss what IS and what ISN'T a skirmish level game. No consensus was ever reached…"

Why I aren't surprised by that??

The exact reason for me basing my ancients the VB-way is the "massed feel" of the bases, of course I could've gone the 6mm route but the 15mm blighters look too nice.

Most people who play WAB use movement trays for their individually based figures so they just have to move the 1 movement tray. 1 tray with a bunch of figures = 1 base with multiple figures = 'army' level game. I also know WAB people who mount several figures to a single base and just use a couple of individually mounted figures in the unit to "make change" for losses.

Bottom line is they're just GAMES. Any resemblance to reality is purely in the imaginations of the player.

We have a deeply seated compulsion to classify all grays as either black or white.

Hi, not interested in grays, whites or blacks, movement trays, or 6mm figures. But what base sizes to use for 15mm anicents, please

My recommendation is to go for the 40mm x15,20,30mm WRG standard. Most current rule sets aiming at 15mm figures accommodate this basing. DBx, Warrior, Might of Arms come to mind. Also you can still play WAB with them, just use casualty caps or have a few bases with fewer figs on them to use to make change.

One side effect of playing WAB with this basing is that some of the formations start to look different. For example, a 6 figure wide by 4 rank deep 25mm formation takes up 120mm x 80mm space. This looks "reasonable" to the eye. The same unit using WRG bases and using loose order infantry (3 per base) will be 80mm wide by 80mm deep. The answer of course is to use more minis!

hi i use 15cm by 15cm for HI..15 by 20 sk..20 by 30 cav and50 by 30 for bigger stuff like elephant ,all these bases can be orderd form likto. i thank they look great. regards glen

that should be 15 mm by 15mm not cm thanks regards glen

There's another possibility nobody has brought up yet and that is to mount your miniatures in multiples on standard WFB bases and play the rules as written but treat each base as a single figure, e.g. mount your infantry 2 (or more) to a 20x20mm base and give the base the same number of attacks and wounds as a single figure. It requires more miniatures but your army looks a lot more like an army. This is how I intend to mount my 10mm Byzantines and Seljuks (in the unlikely event I actually get to them while I'm still young enough to wield a paintbrush).

LT

Personally, I would recommend going with the WRG Standard as well (But playing Hoplon with them)…

That aside… WAB is a skirmish game not so much because it has individually mounted figures, but because you can/could move all of those figures individually, instead of as a group/unit.

The lack of a scale is also a BIG problem in WAB (And WMA as well). You can say "look, this is an army", but until you begin assigning values of just how many people that "Army" represents… The mechanics that you are using for it may well be ALL WRONG…

Anyway, if you have 15mm figures… Go with a game that is designed for them… NOT WAB… Try Hoplon, DBM, DBMM, DBA, Vis Bellica, Armati, Might of Arms, etc…

I can give you loads of info on Hoplon (as well as sell you a copy) if you like.

Excellent advice. Now, nothing is as stupid as bashing another guys rules, particularly a very popular set of rules like WAB. Yea, it's skirmish. But, it's fun, which is the whole point to playing miniatures. [Some folks forget this.] I'm glad that this discussion didn't degenerate into that.

Most of us try several sets of rules in our lives. It's nice to have a standard so that rules for one set work on another. In the words of Scarlett O'Hara, "I will never rebase again!"

Good luck with Hoplon, which is based on WRG I assume. All of mu stuff is based for MOA (standard WRG baseing) – and They ain't ever gettin'rebased ever.

Thanks for the above men, Yes wargaming should be fun, and most of the time it is. I would love to see a set of Hoplon, if you would care to send a copy by e-mail. my
address is
terry1956@btinternet.com
if you pm me I will send you my pastal address if the rules are to large to e-mail, thanks terry

I would have to sell you the copy I am afraid… They are $25 USD US, and shipping is usually around $2 USD (depending upon distance from CA, and type of postage)…

Unfortunately, Hoplon is no longer available for free… That ended with v3…

I would love for you to place an order though.. I need to get a proper web-page up as soon as I can get the time off from school, and a place to support it…

Hoplon is a wonderful set of rules that represents what DBM Should have been from the start. They have just a bit more detail (ie less abstraction) than DBM, but do not weigh the game down with endless tables and modifiers… If we had more people playing (and buying) the rules they may well just become a standard, as they are already startlingly close to an existing standard that just needs a bit more polish and less…abstraction…